The Science Community's Myopia over Intelligent Design

(William A. Dembski is an associate research professor in the conceptual foundations of science at B | William Dembski

[gcruse]

I'll listen to the evos when they can provide a definition of human.

How about--

Faced with the knowledge they're going to die,
Prone to concocting ghost gods in the sky.

[js1138]

I think he "mainstream" ID crowd has already retreated to Intellignet Evolution. Denton has written a book on it, and it appears that Behe and Dembski have fallen in line.

[mlc9852]

To not be able to define human is ridiculous. Humans can breed. Can humans breed with other species?

[js1138]

Faced with the knowledge they're going to die...

So a nonverbal, profoundly retarded person is not human?

[mlc9852]

Everything alive dies - not sure of your point.

[Rudder]

I'm still waiting for a rigorous definition of 'intelligence' from the ID proponents. A hypothesis built upon handwaving is still handwaving.

From Behe's statements on the witness stand, see my post #35.

When approached critically and logically, ID as a science appears ridiculous at best. But it does have its adherents. The reason for that is those who support ID want to believe (as in faith) irrespective of facts or science or logical contradictions.

[Coyoteman]

The designer's name is totally irrelevant.

Irrelevant or unknown? I would like to hear opinions on this.

No answer yet though.

The reason I ask is simple. ID makes a great deal of the fact that they will not ID the IDer. But if anyone suggests it was Old Man Coyote or Kang (the Great Master and Lord of All Life in Bushman stories), or Unkulunkulu (Zulu), there is an immediate outcry along the lines of...

That is not the type of creator I had in mind!

[gcruse]

Everything alive dies - not sure of your point.

The knowledge of such beforehand distinguishes humans, driving them to superstition as a form of relief/denial.

[js1138]

Can humans breed with other species?

Probably.

[USConstitutionBuff]

Humans have a haploid chromosome number of 23. We cannot successfully breed with any other species unless they also have a haploid chromosome number of 23. It is a concept called mitotic segregation and recombination, and it is why a mule cannot reproduce.

Do I have to do all your homework for you?

[js1138]

Chromosome count variations are not an absolute barrier to mating.

[USConstitutionBuff]

Not if what you want is a mule. By "successfully reproduce" I mean an animal capable of reproduction. And no, it is not an "absolute barrier"; very little in biology is absolute. Plants do it all the time with no problems. Animals seem to have a problem with mitotic segregation and recombination if mommy was a lion and daddy was a tiger.

[gcruse]

So a nonverbal, profoundly retarded person is not human?

You might call a fetus nonverbal and profoundly retarded, too.  But once it gains knowledge of its impending demise, it will be prone look for a way out, which must involve the supernatural in some form, since nothing in the natural world can provide an afterlife.

[Rudder]

Can humans breed with other species?

Human beings are a taxonomic group whose members can interbreed. Taxonomic classification is mostly based upon morphology (anatomy), although phsyiology and genotype have been used to clarify taxonomic classifications.

The answer to your question is, "No."

I'll give you a starting point. Human beings are mammalian vertebrates. Veterbrates have a backbone, bilateral symmetry, internal segmentation of organs. Mammals are warm-blooded and have the ability to nourish their young via milk production. Go to a comparative anatomy text and continue in this same vein and you'll put together an operational definition of human being.

[mlc9852]

So you're saying humans aren't as intelligent as so-called lower lifeforms who don't have any ideas of worship?

[mlc9852]

Such as? Should be a fairly easy experiment.

[mlc9852]

I don't remember asking you to do any homework for me. I'm quite capable of looking up information. I was simply looking for a definition for human. I'm getting some interesting replies.

[gcruse]

Oh, they are indeed more intelligent. But are they more rational?

[js1138]

If chromosome count variations were always a barrier to producing fertile offspring, there would be an impregnable barrier to chromosomal speciation. So to speak.

[USConstitutionBuff]

So then you would be "trolling"? Not very good bait on that hook.