Posted on 10/20/2005 5:52:22 PM PDT by wagglebee
Typo - "no matter how rational ..."
HOW DARE YOU...this is a wife of 58 years. Someone who has spent most of her life with him, and, I'm sure you agree, knows him alot more than you do. Because she doesn't want to see him suffer does not make her a monster. It might make you feel better to think that, but that would make you a moron.
How dare YOU? This "wife of 58 years" is my mother and the man she tried to murder is my father. Don't assume that you know anything simply because they were married for that long. This woman agreed to abide by his wishes and one day following his decision (yes, she was in the room) to live and have rehab, she was telling people that she had to make the decision to terminate his life support. You need to read all of these threads because many of my family members have posted the truth about what has gone on here.
Do you plan on visiting him every day?
Hildy, with all good will, I tell you that this is NOT the factual situation that you want to try to make the case about your position on end of life issues.
Hildy, read the whole thread. There are multiple family members on here giving additional insight. And according to them and the affidavits they filed in court, Jimmy Chambers revoked his own living will by communicating emphatically that he did NOT want to die, wanted medication, wanted therapy. What about the patient's wishes?
Indeed it is. Now define it. Some would say alleviating the pain of the terminally ill in the last hours or days by disconnecting tubes is not murder. And some would say that we have advanced too far technologically and have taken the decision that used to be in God's hands and put it in ours. Explain how defying the natural course of order is not immoral. I'm all for technological advances and lifesaving procedures but damned if I'll let any of you ghouls around me or my family keeping us hooked up to machines because it makes you feel better.
For that very reason this is a decision, that if it is to be made by government, should be made by those that believe or may hold the same moral values. That's why we have state legislatures instead of just one national one intended to oversee everything. Because people in NY will have different values than those in NC. Should NY values be forced upon NC citizens?
The proverbial "Do not stand by while your brother's blood is shed."
I'll decide that for myself thank you. And my family will decide that for themselves when the time comes. Republicans have truly come full circle since their inception. From big government liberals to talking the talk of limited government and now to big government conservatives that believe they know what's best for all of us. Thanks but no thanks
I sincerely hope so.
Verbum sat sapienti est.
Like I said, you need to read the whole story. You are speaking out of a lack of what the real situation is.
We were going to sign a 'living will', now I think we won't unless it is really specific about treatment.
I am disgusted by some comments on here directed TO THE CHILDREN of this man....what a disgrace to FR.
Hopefully his children will find some peace as I know their father has.
My prayers are with you and your family.
God Bless
Thank you so much. Please know that comments from strangers that are ignorant of all that has happened here have no power in my life. We (myself and other family members) did see Dad whenever we could, travelling for hours just for a weekend. We also did everything that we could. Not one of us has any regrets. My brother, sis in law and I saw Dad just 10 hours before he died and we were the last family members to see him alive. I have nothing to be ashamed of, including my desire to see his wishes fulfilled. People who try to hurt me only hurt themselves. Christ is my protector and my guide - they come at me, they're coming at Him. Thank you for your concern and compassion. :-)
We also did everything that we could. Not one of us has any regrets.
That is a wonderful feeling, having no regrets.
God Bless
'Jim, do you really want to live in this body? Don't you want to go to heaven and save me the trouble of having to care for you? Don't you want me to get the insurance money that would result from your death, so I can party? Can't you see that I've got better things to do than care for you?' /SARCASM
Take even one moment of another's life -- that's murder. And whose life is each of ours? Not the self, my life is not mine to give up, yours not your own to give up. As our Founders the men and women of the generations of the Great Awaening, the Revolution, and the formation of the nation periods well understood -- a man's life is not is own to surrender, it is G-d's alone. It is among the most serious of our duties as men to keep that borrowed property for has long as we can, in as good a condition as we can.
That alone, that our life's are bailments vouchsafed to us by our L-rd, G-d Himself, is why some killings are not murder. For example: self-defense, killing in a good war, executions after full trial. It is only by our understanding of G-d's law alone that allows any life to be "taken" and not be called murder.
And yet no court in the state of Florida, or the ones elsewhere needlessly bothered, were able to discern this fact. Interesting. But you know it.
There is indeed a difference between those lingering-in-life (even when in excrutiating pain) and the terminally ill in their last moments or even months. Both Terri and this Oregonian father were lingering, not undenialby terminal. So to pull their ventilator or stop feeding them was murder.
However, contrary to your opinion, that is not for you to decide is it? That is up to the citizens of the respective states to determine what they define as murder. But apparently that's not good enough. We need a national determination is that it? Tell me something. What makes the 537 hacks in Washington any more special to determine this than the citizens of a state. Could perhaps Justice Scalia been thinking along these lines when he wrote the Cruzan decision?
This poor ex-Oregonian fellow is likely to have been murdered.
Well by all means set up an inquiry, get together a grand jury and have this issue decided. Somehow I think if the grand jury were to be gathered and used reasoning to come to a conclusion of no fault you still would have a problem with it.
There is indeed a difference between those lingering-in-life (even when in excrutiating pain) and the terminally ill in their last moments or even months. Both Terri and this Oregonian father were lingering, not undenialby terminal. So to pull their ventilator or stop feeding them was murder.
As I said, call it whatever the hell you want to call it. But the law, and the citizens of the respective states involved did not see it that way. I suppose SC is going to get by hurricanes next? That is the supposition I've seen on the 'Terri' threads. Have you asked the gentleman's family (that is posting here I suppose) if you can call him a 'saint' too? I do see most of your sort has dropped those ridiculous lines about St. Terri and apples.
Take even one moment of another's life -- that's murder. And whose life is each of ours? Not the self, my life is not mine to give up, yours not your own to give up. As our Founders the men and women of the generations of the Great Awaening, the Revolution, and the formation of the nation periods well understood -- a man's life is not is own to surrender, it is G-d's alone. It is among the most serious of our duties as men to keep that borrowed property for has long as we can, in as good a condition as we can.
You can put the o there you know. It shows no disrespect for the Almighty. Those that desire to extend life beyond its natural time of course may be showing a bit of disrespect but don't let that stop you on your crusade. Of course you'll provide the source for this apparent quote. H-av-n knows you didn't come up with it. And of course I'm imagining if you do provide the context you are seriously misusing it.
I am so sorry to hear about your Dads passing. I know this sounds trite, but everything happens for a reason and only GOD know that reason.
Having dealt with Living Wills with both of my parents, it is the hardest thing in the world, unlike you both of my parents were terminally ill and nothing could be done for them other than to keep them comfortable until the end.
May GOD bless you and your family and help you through this.
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