Houston Astros @ St. Louis Cardinals -- NLCS Game 6 LIVE THREAD

[nutmeg]

Makes you realize just how piss poor the Red Sox and Yankees pitching was this year.

Got that right, misterrob. Count me in as a huge Roy Oswalt fan also. I'd sure like to see him in a Red Sox uniform one of these years... ;-)

Astros vs White Sox... it's gonna be interesting. See you on the World Series threads!

[Tall_Texan]

1300 is contractually obligated to carry The Mack Brown Show at a certain time slot that is carried over the Texas State Radio Network. Not all the Texas State affiliates are going to carry the Astros so they still need to have that show that they are obligated to provide at that time.

Yeah, it sucks when the team you want to follow is playing the most important game in franchise history. What KVET really needed to do was move the show locally over to KASE 101 just for these games and then back over to 1300 after the Astros are finished.

The only other alternatives are to put all 3 or 4 hours of the game on KASE (bumping their normal programming for the entire night) or pick up the Astros after Mack was finished - which is what they did.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Makes you realize just how piss poor the Red Sox and Yankees pitching was this year.

At least Mazzone didn't go to the Bronx to turn that pitching staff around. The Yanks will still probably sign Burnett, though. I think he'll be as much of a bust as Pavano.

Not any real great options for us in the offseason for starters. I'd maybe look at Jarrod Washburn. Millwood is available, but I think this year was flukey, and besides, the Indians are committed to resigning him. I think that Papelbon will be incredible for us, though, and Schill should win us 15 games next year. Excellent short-term options to fix our bullpen, though. I'm not giving up on Foulke, yet, though.

If we have Ortiz and Manny and we keep Tek fresh throughout the season, we should be just fine.

[misterrob]

Peter Gammons' column on the 15th was a pretty interesting indictment of the Sox and Yankees. Both teams are getting old and the league has gotten better. The Sox have to rely on their farm system to build with a few role players added on to their superstars. Signing 32 year old guys to 4-5 year deals in order to win today is foolish. They overspent on Renteria and Clement was worth $6.5 million this year in terms of production but not the $9.5 they have him for the next 2. The fans have this mentality that they have to win NOW!!! and it simply cannot work this way. Will the fans let them take the team apart in 2006 so that they can win 90 plus games from 2007 and beyond with the young pitching that they have?

The Yankees built a team that went 4/5 in World Series play starting back in 1996 that did it with home grown starts and roll players. In 2001 they almost won against a better team. Since that time they have bought player after player and depleted their farm system til there is nothing left. This is where they have become bad for baseball in that they run up the price of free agents instead of developing young guys that they can build a team around.

[GraniteStateConservative]

This is great! What is the skinny on the Astros versus Chicago....I haven't followed baseball this year.

The key for the Astros is to neutralize Konerko like they did Pujols. Konerko isn't as great a hitter as Pujols, IMO, so I think the Astros will be fine in this series.

[GraniteStateConservative]

I'd sure like to see him in a Red Sox uniform one of these years... ;-)

We'll get our chance in only two years. That crop of pitchers top to bottom is ridiculous. Here are some key guys.

Livan Hernandez
Shawn Chacon
Joel Pineiro
Javier Vazquez
Jon Lieber
Matt Clement
Bartolo Colon
Freddy Garcia
Brian Lawrence
Curt Schilling (retirement)
Roy Halladay
Kris Benson (Mets option)
Jaret Wright
Victor Zambrano
Carlos Zambrano
Josh Beckett
Bronson Arroyo
Rodrigo Lopez
Carlos Silva
Kyle Lohse
Roy Oswalt

[GraniteStateConservative]

Signing 32 year old guys to 4-5 year deals in order to win today is foolish.

We can't sign young superstars. They aren't eligible for FA until they are old guys. We'd love to sign Ryan Howard to a 6-year deal. We need a 1B with power and he would be perfect long-term. Edgar wasn't supposed to give up 30 errors. No one in baseball saw that coming. He hit about as well as we thought, so that was fine. Clement is only a 3 year committment-- now only a two year one. The Yanks own Pavano for one more year than we own Clement.

Next year could be a trying year for Red Sox fans so we'll see how they deal with a team that wins 85 games and misses the postseason, if that's what happens.

In hindsight, O-Cab at $7M would have been smarter, but Eckstein would have been even smarter-- and no one saw that coming.

One thing the Sox are doing began with Hansen-- signing "unsignable" 1st round draft picks to major league deals. Poor teams can't do that. Too risky-- and it is a risk, maybe as much as signing these FAs Gammo thinks is so stupid. We could have had Mark Teixeira manning 1B since '03, but we were interested in signing known quantities to big deals instead of risky draftable players. I think that's changed permanently. We probably could have had Kazmir, I bet, too (we would have had to really spend a lot to outbid the Mets). The baseball draft is weird because teams won't draft players if the player makes it known they won't sign with that team because a better offer is available with a different team.

I just hope the Yanks, Mets and Angels don't fully adopt this strategy-- at least not for a few years while we snap up risky prospects that pay off huge!

[mainepatsfan]

I'd take Benson just to bring his wife along.

[Catholic Iowan]

My mom went to school with Dennis Menke! He was a few grades ahead of her, I believe. Anyway, this should be a great W.S.!!!

[misterrob]

You can't sign them, you have to draft them, manage them intelligently through the minors and then resist the urge to trade them in haste just to try and make the playoffs. By the way, how'd you like the D played by Adam Everett last night? We could have saved ourselves big $$$ by not trading him for Jurassic Carl or we could have had Bagwell for 15 years instead of Captain Belch, Larry Anderson. Mike Boddiker for Brady Anderson and Curt Schilling? Eckstein was in the Sox system and was let go.

This just reeks of poor scouting and talent evaluation and the "have to win now" mentality. I realize that not every prospect works out in the long run but look at the A's today as well as their players all over the league. They figured it out as did Cleveland.

The Sox did okay with Kevin Millar (*2/3 years), Bill Mueller, Todd Walker, K-Horn (year one), Timlin, Embree (2/3 years) and Wells. Wells cost them good money but it was all incentive based and a great move by Theo. You win with guys like that. The Yankees did that with O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Knobloch, Brochus mixed in with some superstars and great pitching.

The Sox fans have to get over the fact that they cannot spend like the Yankees and they have a choice to make. Are they willing to play the game of having to be appeased for 86 years of failure or having gotten a wonderful WS are they willing to rebuild and contend for years? $100 million payroll can get you to the dance with some stars, role players and exciting young guys that make them a lot of fun to watch.

[GraniteStateConservative]

She's a baseball slut. Hooray baseball sluts.

[GraniteStateConservative]

You can't sign them, you have to draft them, manage them intelligently through the minors and then resist the urge to trade them in haste just to try and make the playoffs. By the way, how'd you like the D played by Adam Everett last night? We could have saved ourselves big $$$ by not trading him for Jurassic Carl or we could have had Bagwell for 15 years instead of Captain Belch, Larry Anderson. Mike Boddiker for Brady Anderson and Curt Schilling? Eckstein was in the Sox system and was let go.

But, you can't hold onto every player you draft. Teams with high payrolls use their farm system to get high priced players. The key is to know which ones, and that's difficult. Oswalt, for example, was a 23rd round pick in '96. How many 23rd rounders even make it to the Big Show? Should we have kept Pavano instead of getting Petey? We sent Justin Duchscherer away for Mirabelli, but I think Mirabelli helped Wake.

You bring up Adam and Carl. Let's look at that. 2000 was a win now year. We had just won the ALDS and did win 1 game against the Yanks-- so we thought we would be able to build off that in 2000. Petey was in his prime and you need a dominant pitcher for a short playoff series, we had Nomar coming off a year when he won the batting title and then repeated the feat, Derek Lowe doing a fine job closing games, and Carl did what he was brought in to do-- .959 OPS and 34 homers. As a GM you have to look at your team and go for it sometimes-- go all in.

This just reeks of poor scouting and talent evaluation and the "have to win now" mentality. I realize that not every prospect works out in the long run but look at the A's today as well as their players all over the league. They figured it out as did Cleveland.

Yes, look at them. Look at their glorious postseason success recently...

It's not a fluke that the Yanks make the playoffs year after year. Or that we usually do. Or, the Angels. You talk about the Bagwell trade. How smart were the Stros to give up so much for a rental of the Big Useless? You think they could have used Freddy Garcia and Carlos Guillen in 2004-- with that team that had a 3-2 lead over the Cards? They might be seeking out a repeat WS championship this year.

[misterrob]

No, you can't hold all of them but the "rent a player to win now" is short sighted and you pay for it later with signing top players for bigger bucks later in the careers. This has been the shortcoming of the Sox over the years and the Yankees have failed the last several years as well.

I think that you will see fewer mistakes like Jenks and Oswalt happening as power arms are at such a premium. Even if a guy can't start for lack of a good 3rd pitch (Oswalt's performance last night was amazing in light of the fact he wasn't using his curve much) if he can rear back and crank it out with a decent #2 pitch, he can be a real valuable part of your pen.

Pedro was in his prime....that was the steal of a lifetime. He was in his mid-20's, had won a Cy Young and Montreal needed to dump payroll.

Carl Everett was a guy with real problems who for all his hitting talent was a club house cancer. Like I said, scouting.

Roger Clemens in the twilight of his career? Another Sox mistake. With him and Pedro they could have gone to a series.

Also, scouting has changed a lot as well thanks to the A's and the new mentality in scouting. Guys who throw hard and can throw strikes will be sought after. Just because he looks good on the beach with a 6'-3" frame and weighs 230 lbs will not get you a high draft spot. Mental make up also means more.


Think what the A's could have been with Tejada, Giambi and Damon in their line up with Isringhausen in their pen. (Yeah, Giambi cheated but he was always an amazing OBP guy) Look at what they got for Mulder and Hudson (trades forced due to lack of $$$) and look at the pen that they have and all of it done with a budget with no room for errors. They were winning 98-100 games a year with a payroll 1/2 of the Sox a few years ago.

The Angels win with pitching and if you look at their system they are in a great place. Yes, they could afford Colon and Vlad but they still scout well. The Mets, meanwhile, spend huge money and still manage to suck every year due to wasting money on guys late in their careers just to try and keep up with the Yankees.

I agree that sometimes you need to go all in when you have the parts in place. But, I like what Theo did this year in not trading Papelbon, Annibel Sanchez, Youk or other promising guys just to try and win today at the expense of tomorrow. He'll have money to sign a big bat or take on a rent a player when needed while doing it the way the Yankees did in the 90's.

[misterrob]

MLB.com

Weak analysis but it shows what we have coming our way. I think that we need to draft a catcher, power hitting 1B and 3B and another good OF hitter next year.

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

Astros vs White Sox... it's gonna be interesting. See you on the World Series threads!

I can think of reasons to root for and against both teams.

[nutmeg]

I can think of reasons to root for and against both teams.

I know, same here. I'm rooting for the Astros, but apparently most of the sports experts (on ESPN anyway) are pretty sure the White Sox will win.

I'm no expert, but I do think the White Sox have better offense. I guess both teams are roughly matched up as far as pitching. If I were betting on this year's World Series, I'd bet on the White Sox to win.