ABC Investigation: Gaping Lapses in Security at Nuclear Reactors (NO SECURITY AT REACTORS!)

ABC ^ | Brian Ross

[jeffers]

See?

You don't even need ABC news, or any of the others either.

Push them out of the way, say what's on your mind without using any of their poorly researched quotes, spin and agenda, and you can communicate fine.

It'd be nice if we had a respopnsible media to go along with the First Amendment, but clearly we don't, so we just have to get along as best we can, without them.

[Itzlzha]

...- but given the recently revised (downward) death toll from Chernobyl I'm not real worried.

Don't believe it!

There is a move on to reduce the threat from radiation/radioactive materials to reduce the legal exposure of facilities and the US government in exposure cases against Savannah River, Hanford et al.

There is pletny of research that shows what long term/low level exposure does, but they want to use the Hiroshima/Nagasaki studies, which are high burst/high dose exposures...totally diiferent body reactions, but that is hopw they propose to get out of work exposure responsibility!

Do the research, don't just "Trust Me"...I'm not Bush!

But I do know of what I speak here...

[MindBender26]

But you see..... I'm still cashing my CBS retirement checks...... :~)

My current FR "career path" is "biting the hand that once fed me!"

Someday I am going to write a book.... but the story isn't finished. In the '60s-'90s "shaping" the news was "ok" among the libs, because they were working for the "public good" no pollution, no war, no racial discrimination, etc, ad nausium.

They wouldn't actively lie, just "shade" and "shape" the news.

Now, that's all changed. They blame themselves for Gore's loss in 00..... and Kerry in 04 was "so close....."

The media and the Hollywood have an unspoken pact that they will ensure the election of Hillary, or die trying.

Look at "Commander in Chief" with two leading Dem activists playing the sweet, kind, oh so competent Dem female prez and the horrible Republican.

Look at Rather trying his best to ensure the Bush defeat. It's the same Dan Rather who made speeches, while he was anchor, at Dem fundraisers in TX.

Look at all of it, and ask, can we survive as a Nation?

[Ostlandr]

Like my Granddad taught me, I don't believe anything I read, and only half of what I see.

Good point on exposure. I'm sure the trial lawyers won't let the government wiggle out of responsibility.
Very similar to sun exposure and skin cancer- only real defense is to minimize your total lifetime exposure.

Interesting how folks these days are more afraid of asbestos than radiation. Again, the same thing- it takes either short-term high level exposure or long-term low level exposure to do damage. Accidentally breathing a tiny bit of asbestos dust while fixing a pipe is equivalent to the radiation exposure in a chest X-ray.

BTW, Love the tagline.

[MindBender26]

>Again, the same thing- it takes either short-term high level exposure or long-term low level exposure to do damage. Accidentally breathing a tiny bit of asbestos dust while fixing a pipe is equivalent to the radiation exposure in a chest X-ray

Well said. The radiation safety officer at Indian Point who briefed us before we went to Chernobyl described it like this:

There are two problems with radiation; exposure and contamination.

Exposure is like smelling dog poo. Contamination is stepping in it.

Not exactly correct technically, but we got the idea.

[MindBender26]

Just watched the story. Some of the materiel was referred to as "enriched uranium" Other sites were described as having "highly enriched uranium." Other (at least one) as "93% weapons grade uranium."

Although i can agree with your point that DOD and others would not want this stuff out there, (the materiel) I doubt that claim is false for two reasons.

1. Story has probably been in works for at least 8 months. Someone (not seen on camera or referred to) tipped them to this. It smelled very much like a disgruntled employee tipster story. ABC would have done a pretty thorough job of checking this out.

2. ABC showed story to universities and NRC so they could not be accused of aiding terrorists. NRC responded, but made to mention of scientific inaccuracies.

Regardless of enrichment level, the story showed how very bad security was in places it should have been very good.

Finally, the plans to have campus police departments respond is ludicrous. Imagine some campus barney Fife's against a bunch of trained, dedicated terrs with AK-47s.

Game, Set, Match to the bad guys.!

[jeffers]

Using weapons grade uranium in a power reactor would be a lot like trying to use pure nitroglycerin during a road-cut construction project. Sure, it will do the job, but you have a tiger by the tail and it can get away from you very easily. Pretty sure it was Oppenheimer playing with a pile of refined Pu or U235 blocks and accidentally got to see a little unplanned blue fire. The incident wised him up fast.

That said, certain applications require neutron (or other particle) flux densities difficult or impossible to obtain using fuels other than weapons grade HEU. I'm not sure that calling such core assemblies "reactors" is strictly correct, any more than calling a Pratt-Whitney gas turbine an "auto engine" is correcxt. Yes, you could power a car with it, but it's such a rare practice that such labelling could easily be deceptive if misused.

The Wiki link posted earlier says it has been updated as recently as yesterday. Footnote number 9 from the following article notes that the quoted information is correct as of October 2002:

[9] All told, 10 research reactors in the United States with power greater than 1 megawatt-thermal continue to operate with HEU. Four NRC-licensed TRIGA reactors continue to operate with HEU fuel (at Oregon State University, Texas A&M University, the University of Wisconsin, and Washington State University) because LEU fuel for them is expensive, and the Department of Energy (DOE) has not yet provided the funds to finance conversion; they will never receive new HEU fuel, however, as manufacture of this fuel was ended some 20 years ago. Reactors at MIT and the University of Missouri have not been able to convert with past LEU fuels, but should be able to do so with the high-density uranium-molybdenum fuels now being qualified. Within the DOE complex, there are four more: the Advanced Test Reactor, the High Flux Isotope Reactor, the High Flux Beam Reactor, and the Annular Core Research Reactor. All other U.S. high-power research reactors using HEU fuel have been converted or shut down. Armando Travelli, personal communication to Frank von Hippel, October, 2002.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/securing/convert.asp

Up front, I will concede that this osurce appears to make the distinction between LEU, MEU and HEU.

Theoretically, with access to the proper machining facilities, you can fit any kind of fuel you choose into an existing reactor, if you have access to the fuel in the first place. Obtaining an NRC license to operate such a pile legally is another matter, and I tend to suspect that major universities will not knowingly operate a reactor without a license. Upgrading to more enriched fuel is not as simple a matter as deciding to fill your tank with premium this week. Assemble a core such that the prompt neutron flux is too low, and the pile will never achieve ignition. Too far the other way will have undesirable results for the entire campus and anyone else under the resultant plume. This is not a trial and error process.

In the case of the University of Wisconsin, I believe that they have since converted to LEU, as specified in my earlier post, because it is a newer fuel, and because the older HEU is no longer manufactured.

You can postulate on NTI's (more MSM influence) possible agenda and motives here:

http://www.nti.org/b_aboutnti/b_index.html

This article does not include a date:

The Reed College Reactor is a TRIGA Mark I water-cooled, "swimming pool" reactor at the bottom of a 25-foot-deep tank. It uses 58 zirconium hydride/uranium hydride fuel elements in a circular grid
array. The uranium fuel is enriched to 20 percent in uranium-235.

http://reactor.reed.edu/rrf_info.php

Regarding the media, I believe we have currently achieved an uneasy status quo. They are lying at every opportunity, and we no longer believe them. They failed to find traction in the run-up to OIF, they failed to lie Kerry into office, and they failed to assign blame to Bush over Katrina.

I believe that an easy opportunity exists for any news organization willing to place ethics and truth above major stockholder's agendas.

I also believe that there are potential long term negative ramifications to a largely deceptive free press, but have not yet decided if the current status quo in mathematically detrimental beyond salvage to the country as a whole in the long term. It's not a good situation, but I can't say it will be fatal yet.

[Smokin' Joe]

It is not so different here. If you are a smoker, or even commonly exposed to cigarette smoke, all other occupational hazards (with the possible exception of asbestos) are ignored and the cigarettes get the blame.

[MindBender26]

>Regarding the media, I believe we have currently achieved an uneasy status quo. They are lying at every opportunity, and we no longer believe them. They failed to find traction in the run-up to OIF, they failed to lie Kerry into office, and they failed to assign blame to Bush over Katrina.

>I believe that an easy opportunity exists for any news organization willing to place ethics and truth above major stockholder's agendas.

>I also believe that there are potential long term negative ramifications to a largely deceptive free press, but have not yet decided if the current status quo in mathematically detrimental beyond salvage to the country as a whole in the long term. It's not a good situation, but I can't say it will be fatal yet.

As an old retired CBS type, and a Conservative, let me give you a little insight.

The active lies and liars are rare. Most distortion comes from a combination of VERY little real world experience and their college educators who told them that Conservatives, the Middle Class, America itself is intrinsically bad and must be remodeled in a form to fit the professors (who have even less real world experience and are further left than their students) and their far-left ideals.

These academics are people who still miss Lenin, think the Rosenbergs were innocent, US Soldiers are war criminals, etc.

Then these "best and brightest" students, such as you saw last PM get swallowed up into network. They never work the cops and courts beat in Anadarko, Oklahoma. They never know they are being lied to by pros, such as crooks, cops and lawyers. All their experience is within sight of the Empire State Building.... and it's a very twisted experience.

In a business where ratings are everything, and there is nothing but ratings, stories get altered to make them more dramatic and more to the liking of the farther left bosses.

You also have far-far leftists, such as Helen Thomas, Peter Arnett and others who became journalists so they could "change the world" not necessarily tell the truth.

An evening's dinner with Helen Thomas at Mama Aiesha's is to watch her consume way too much cheap red wine and lecture the tables on how she hates, HATES, Israel and the Bush family and would love to see the death of both.

Finally, you have the guys ans gals who are on TV for their egos and fat saleries. Rather, Geraldo, Sawyer, plus many more etc.

In many cases, they aren't inherently leftists, but that's all they see at the oh-so-fashionable NYC and DC parties, and they haven't got the marts or guts to challenge it.

It's so funny, because one "Lion of American Broadcast Journalism" is so racist he cant even carry on a conversation with many Black people.

All in all, many are phonies, and don't even know it.

[WildTurkey]

"Their bags, which were not searched, were left in an office connected to the reactor room."

That used to be my office!

[WildTurkey]

Most peole would not understand, even if the media tried to be fully informative ... that these college reactors are small reactors that can't go critical, and are very low enrichment.

Most go critical and supercritical and many are very highly enriched.

[WildTurkey]

That said, I'm going to ask you once again, do you know what happens when you assemble a critical mass of weapons grade uranium?

What happens? I have assembled critical (and supercritical) masses of weapons grade uranium many a time. Just me and my buddy in the room ...

[WildTurkey]

A four-month ABC News investigation found gaping security holes ... on 25 college campuses across the country.

For the most part, colleges are run by people who could never make it in the real world. Operating a nuclear reactor is too 'real world' for most of them.

Are you referring to those that run the campus or those that run the reactor on campus?

[WildTurkey]

Regarding the Purdue reactor, PUR1, it is a 10 kW test reactor, using a sub critical mass, meaning it can't "melt down" under any conditions.

I think you had better check your sources ...

[TaxRelief]

Or the incongruous combination

[WildTurkey]

Or the incongruous combinationI can give you lots of examples to prove you false ... starting with me, my former professor, and many more.

[tahoeblue]

I watched this report last night and think that they completely missed the point.

The report constantly talked about how two cute girls could smile and show a little leg and get someone (who b.t.w. already had the facility keys in his pocket) to unlock a few doors and let them into the facilities with their backpacks on. OMG - they didn't even have to go through a metal detector or show an ID!!!

The report constantly said "the facility is licensed for 25 units of uranium and you only need 17 to make a real bomb"!!!!! Then in the next sentence they implied that the amount of material the site was licensed for was actually on the site.

Let's face it if that amount of material was really on site and if real terrorists wanted into one of these places because they felt they could do damage the terrorists:

1) would not worry about having to show ID
2) would not worry about a stinkin' metal detector
3) would not have to sweet talk the guy with the key to unlock the door for them

If there really is a danger from these reactors, they need *real* security. A few more locked doors and a few metal detectors isn't going to mean a thing.

The worst thing about the report is it states that these facilities are *really* *really* dangerous, and then goes onto imply that they can be secured by a few more rent-a-cops, a metal detector, and a student ID check. And - ABC has the NRC agreeing with this nonsensical idea and trying to scramble to CYA with these inane changes to security.

Either the places are dangerous or they are not. If they are - they need *serious* security (or to be shut down and the material removed). If they are not - don't waste time and effort trying to make ABC feel better about things.

[WildTurkey]

And - ABC has the NRC agreeing with this nonsensical idea and trying to scramble to CYA with these inane changes to security.

I don't think the NRC needs to scramble. The head of the NRC is my former professor and former Director of the UofF reactor.

[jeffers]

You playing semantics with me?

Assembled means without intervening moderator, and critical mass means naked sphere critical mass, and if you do so, it will initiate a cascade.

Regarding PUR-1, that information was current as of roughly 1986. They may have upgraded the core since then.

[WildTurkey]

You playing semantics with me?

Well, word do have meanings!

Assembled means without intervening moderator, and critical mass means naked sphere critical mass, and if you do so, it will initiate a cascade.

Geez. I better go throw away my BS in NE and two+ years of graduate studies in nuclear engineering, my senior reactor operators license and almost 30 years designing and testing nuclear reactors and power plants. Thanks for setting me straight.

Regarding PUR-1, that information was current as of roughly 1986. They may have upgraded the core since then.

hmmmm.