For A Confederation Of Noachides (Rabbi Shmueley Boteach On Attracting Non-Jews To Monotheism Alert)

Jerusalem Post ^ | 10/11/05 | Rabbi Shmueley Boteach

[goldstategop]

Rabbi Shmueley Boteach says Jews need non-Jews to help invigorate Judaism: by creating a worldwide B'nai Noah - or Sons Of Noah - non-Jews who live by the Seven Laws Of Noah and become in effect Jews without a full conversion to Judaism. There will be those who will prefer pure monotheism and a logical faith to those who want a more corporeal religion - which is what Christianity represents. In the Jewish view, they are both valid paths to eternal salvation for non-Jews since they both bring mankind closer to God.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[wideawake]

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[SJackson]

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[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

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[Steve_Seattle]

"But the bigger reason we don’t proselytize is even more noble, namely, that unlike every other religion in the world, we don’t claim a copyright on truth. We don’t believe that by becoming a Jew you come closer to God than you would be as a devout Christian or Muslim."

Well . . . sort of. The Rabbi does not mention another reason, i.e., that Judaism has been taken by its followers to be primarily, if not exclusively, an ethnic-based religion. The Noachide movement, which I was already familiar with, seems to be a step away from Jewish ethnic exclusivity, and for that reason it is probably a step in the right direction.

[Steve_Seattle]

Many branches of liberal Christianity are moving away from the traditional doctrine of Jesus as the literal Son of God and are viewing him more as a Jewish prophet. Of course, traditional Christians see this as apostasy, but others - myself included - see it as a corrective to the theological distortions of Nicene Christianity, which we believe altered the original Christianity of Jesus and the earliest apostles. So there are hopeful signs for increasing Jewish/Christian rapprochement in the future.

[Sabramerican]

Judaism has been taken by its followers to be primarily, if not exclusively, an ethnic-based religion.

Just considering that the entire Davidic line is descendent from Ruth, a convert, your assertion is ridiculous.

There are several trees of prominent Jewish families today who claim to be from the Davidic line, in effect all proudly claiming both King David and their "Gentile" ancestor.

[MeanWestTexan]

"So there are hopeful signs for increasing Jewish/Christian rapprochement in the future."

Tell that to my family --- who have effectively cut me out because I (a Jew who more-than-dabbled in Orthodoxy) coverted to Christianity.

I am a non-entity to them.

As far as the non-protilization of non-ethnic Jews, this goes back to just before the second temple peiod --- look at the list of Jews who returned and who did not --- unless you could prove your descent, you did not return.

Basically, to most Jews, either you are a Son of Abraham or you are not.

My children, born to a shiksa, are not (according to my family). Period.

So I don't see this as gaining much acceptance, and, considering it seeks to make Jew-lites out of Christians, I don't think it the right idea.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Just considering that the entire Davidic line is descendent from Ruth, a convert, your assertion is ridiculous."

Well, if you want to go back thousands of years . . . I'm talking about modern times - say, the past thousand years - where Jews rarely proselytized among non-Jews, and Judaism was considered something you were born in to, not that you converted to. Conversion to Judaism was allowed, but not sought out, and sometimes actively discouraged. I don't think it's "ridiculous" to suggest that Judaism has been ethnic-based in a way that Christianity and Islam haven't been. But maybe "ethnic" isn't quite the right word, since among Jews there are obviously different physical/cultural types, e.g., Sephardic, and so forth, but the point is that being a Jew was almost always considered something you were by birth, not by "signing up" or converting.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Tell that to my family --- who have effectively cut me out because I (a Jew who more-than-dabbled in Orthodoxy) coverted to Christianity."

No one's saying that the old attitudes aren't still there and still powerful, but I think there has been a change in the last 40 years or so. To use a cliche, there's way more "dialogue" than there used to be, there are more conversions both ways than there used to be, and some of the old barriers are eroding, if not disappearing.

[Sabramerican]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1128955350284&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Tax-chick]

vastly increasing the Jewish birthrate as well as fighting assimilation is key

[Sabramerican]

In the past couple of thousand years very few Gentiles would be drawn to a people that are constantly besieged and tormented by the majority World.

I doubt European Christendom would have taken kindly to its Jews proselytizing.

All proper converts are full Jews.

Walk down a street in Israel, you would see a multi cultural mosaic that would make you think you are in a melting pot city like New York. The difference would be that the vast majority of different colors and hues are Jewish.

[Steve_Seattle]

I'm aware there are a few black Jews - apparently a vast throng of 750 in Uganda - if that was the point of the link.

[Sabramerican]

because I (a Jew who more-than-dabbled in Orthodoxy) converted to Christianity.

The other side of the coin that proves my point.

Converts are fully accepted into Judaism and converts out are accepted as having left.

[Sabramerican]

No. Article was just coincidental.

The number does not depend on Jews. If more Blacks- or Asians- or Scots- converted, there would be more such Jews.

The point is that Judaism accepts all people. To assert it's ethnically based is nonsense.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach is a renegade liberal/new age CHaBa"Dnik who until recently supported the "peace camp" in Israel, defended Bill Clinton, and went to great lengths to deny any commonality between Judaism and chr*stianity while co-authoring a book with new age "guru" Depak Chopra on all the things Judaism allegedly has in common with "new age" nonsense. He is most famous as "Michael Jackson's rabbi," though I believe he finally defected from him and became somewhat friendlier to Fundamentalist Protestants.

I pray to G-d that the incipient Sanhedrion in Jerusalem has nothing to do with this guy.

[MeanWestTexan]

Yes and no. More of a lost sheep that would be welcome back, if my "apostacy" ceased.

Unlikely, since my apostacy has now created four wonderful daughters.

[MeanWestTexan]

"To assert it's ethnically based is nonsense."

To assert it is purely ethnically based IS nonsense.

But there is certainly an ethnic compenent --- to the Jews, Jews are, by definition, descendants of Abraham, Issac, et al.

To reject that is nonsense, as well.

I am certainly an ethnic Jew, my acceptance of Christ or no.