[California] Governor signs bills on school accountability

AP ^ | 9/28/5

[SmithL]

Uh-oh, the teacher's union isn't going to like him anymore.

[zzen01]

Yeah but what's this CHARTER SCHOOLS: Charter schools will have more oversight from county superintendents, crap!

[Carry_Okie]

SCHOOL SPENDING: California schools will now have to report the average per-pupil spending and teachers' salaries at individual schools in the annual accountability reports they are required to give parents and the state.

The change should shed light on the inequities in spending within school districts, such as whether some schools have more qualified teachers than others, said Sen. Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, who introduced the bill, SB687. Previously, districts only had to report districtwide averages.

If a school doesn't pay as much as the union wants, is that because the teacher is incompetent or is it because they are organized differently? For example, if the school doesn't spend its money on teachers and instead provides more online services from nationally recognized outstanding lecturers with classroom assistants instead, what's wrong with that?

You think the union won't like this? I beg to differ. This is just a way of burdening charter schools with the paperwork, bureaucratic bullying, and nitpicking they were orgaized to escape.

[newzjunkey]

Call me crazy but I believe you can never have too much information when it comes to how education dollars are squandered.

[Carry_Okie]

Call me crazy but I believe you can never have too much information when it comes to how education dollars are squandered.

OK, you're crazy, because you think spending on oversight delivers accountability. It doesn't. 25% of your educational dollar is spent on bureaucratic "oversight," "grant management," "program compliance," etc. Is that be enough for you? I think it's too much.

I guess you like employing unionized Democrats to exert centralized control instead of spending the money in the classroom to do what the parents want. Conservatives are funny that way.

[inquest]

Yeah but what's this CHARTER SCHOOLS: Charter schools will have more oversight from county superintendents, crap!

That caught my eye as well. This needs to be a warning to all enthusiasts of charter schools and vouchers: What government funds, it controls. Best to remember that always.

[rottndog]

A report earlier this month by the public policy research group Education Trust-West found that schools with higher numbers of poor and racial minority students have teachers who earn less and are generally less experienced than their counterparts at more affluent schools — even within the same district.


This crap has already been debunked. Schools with higher numbers of poor and racial minority students have higher teacher turnover rates, hence lower average years teaching per teacher, hence lower average salaries since teachers get pay and raises based on years teaching.

The real question that should be raised is what is it about teaching poor and racial minority students that causes such relatively high rates of teacher turnover?

[Goodgirlinred]

I don't think you are crazy. I think you are right on the money! (No pun intended.)

[Goodgirlinred]

Why is this accountability going to be so expensive? I think it should be each Principal's duty to report these averages in his or her school to the school board or whomever they are responsible to. Then, anyone with a lick of sense can look at the reports and see if there are any inequities.

I doubt the teachers' salaries are where the inequities lie. It is probably in the quality and number of the supplies, computers, textbooks, etc. Also, building maintenance would factor in. If you have ever seen a NYC school, you will know what I mean.

[Goodgirlinred]

As the mother of a Virginia teacher, I would say it is because of disciplinary problems and parents who will not support the teachers by encouraging their children to do their homework, listen in class, and do the best that they possibly can to get a decent education.

[Carry_Okie]

Why is this accountability going to be so expensive?

Think of all the educational programs that have been generated over the years, each with its own qualifications and rules. Reagan tried to fix it with block grants for a reason. The oversight often costs more than the amount that gets to beneficiaries.

I think it should be each Principal's duty to report these averages in his or her school to the school board or whomever they are responsible to. Then, anyone with a lick of sense can look at the reports and see if there are any inequities.

My point was refuting newzjunkey's "there can't be too much oversight," not that there shouldn't be any. Best to keep it local.

I doubt the teachers' salaries are where the inequities lie.

Unless they are non-union, temps, or unaccredited (IMO, accreditation is a monopoly barrier to entry). Remember, an unemployed engineer won't be accredited, but would be far more qualified to teach math than most accredited high school teachers.

Also, building maintenance would factor in. If you have ever seen a NYC school, you will know what I mean.

Charter schools often don't own their facilities, but, once again, special building codes governing schools often turn into horrendously expensive traps: new construction being too costly to attempt, so the old stuff that is deteriorated to the point of dangerous remains in use.

[Carry_Okie]

The real question that should be raised is what is it about teaching poor and racial minority students that causes such relatively high rates of teacher turnover?

A lot of that was created by class-size-reduction under Proposition 8. The law created new openings at schools in well to do districts and the better teachers from the inner city schools left to get those jobs, leaving the openings in the inner city schools for the dregs of the teaching profession.

[Carry_Okie]

As the mother of a Virginia teacher, I would say it is because of disciplinary problems and parents who will not support the teachers by encouraging their children to do their homework, listen in class, and do the best that they possibly can to get a decent education.

Teachers often blame parents, forgetting that those parents are products of public schools.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

***This needs to be a warning to all enthusiasts of charter schools and vouchers: What government funds, it controls. Best to remember that always.***

Yep.

[Serenissima Venezia]

Teachers often blame parents, forgetting that those parents are products of public schools.

Teachers aren't blaming parents for having a bad education themselves - its for their poor parenting skills. Many parents these days have abdicated their parenting responsibilites - look at the number of kids from divorced homes, that are alone for numerous hours after school, that have to deal with the emotional turmoil of remarriages, and are neglected in one form or another because of their parent's immaturity. This stems more from the selfish attitude of the 60's than from public schooling.

[Goodgirlinred]

My daughter is an excellent teacher. She had students who never would do their homework and they were in the third grade!!! My daughter certainly could not go home with every student and make sure that he or she did his homework. That is a parent's responsibility. Parents who do not take on the role of a parent and do what they are supposed to do to help their own children routinely blame the teachers for their children's failures.

Good education is a cooperative effort among teachers, parents, and students.

My daughter was talking with a teacher who was leaving the Roanoke City schools to come to Bedford to teach at lower pay. The reason was because there is better discipline in our schools. The city schools have a high proportion of students from welfare families, broken homes, the projects, etc. This does not mean that every student in those situations is a problem and not a good student, but there are a good percentage who are problems.

We don't have gangs in our schools, either.

[Goodgirlinred]

Teachers need to be accredited. Not everyone who has knowledge of a subject is qualified to teach it. Also, the old saying that those who can DO and those who can't TEACH should never be the rule in this country or even an option.

[Carry_Okie]

Teachers aren't blaming parents for having a bad education themselves - its for their poor parenting skills...

Those "bad parenting skills," as you call them, were born in American colleges and universities, where the misbegotten seeds of Cultural Marxism were first sown. I suggest you look into the activities of the Frankfurt School. Further, the immorality that led to many of those divorces was first promulgated by a sado-masochistic homosexual pedophile, Alfred Kinsey, at Indiana University, a public school.

Remember, when children first enter school, they are told in no uncertain terms that the State is in charge. If their parents are mean to them, they can get mommy and daddy in trouble. Kids aren't stupid. They figure out who runs the show in a hurry. It's down hill from there all the way through college.

Those parents with bad skills were products of "Why Johnny Can't Read," "the sexual revolution," the "Free Speech Movement," and don't-stay-at-home mommy feminism. ALL were products of Cultural Marxism promulgated in public schools brought to America by the Frankfurt School and given high station under the Roosevelt Administration to a willing, indeed, complict academe.

Public schools.

[Carry_Okie]

Teachers need to be accredited.

There is no correlation between accreditation and classroom performance, none.

Not everyone who has knowledge of a subject is qualified to teach it.

Beats having a teacher who doesn't have a decent understanding of it, which is common.

Also, the old saying that those who can DO and those who can't TEACH should never be the rule in this country or even an option.

A platitude in search of a point.

[Goodgirlinred]

I have been made aware of the fact that you home school your children. That is fine if it works for you. However, do not denigrate the teachers of this country just because you may have found a few who were not well qualified. I would not want someone teaching my children who had not been through the proper educational program and passed with decent grades.

I don't think you and I have anything further to discuss. You have your own agenda, which is fine, and I have my own point of view.