Posted on 09/27/2005 9:10:31 AM PDT by Crackingham
The fossil record shows that kinds appear over time, they were not present from the beginning of life on earth. Furthermore new kinds look similar to existing kinds. Cows and horses don't suddenly appear in the cambrian for example. The first mammals are primitive kinds. Horses appear after horse-like kinds already exist. Even ID proponents accept the progression of life over time (the non-creationist ones). They just disagree over the mechanisms that caused this change.
So what is the barrier that stops change at some limit?
If ID promoters actually did real science, they'd instantly win Nobel prizes if they could describe the mechanism that did this and prove it's existence.
Without any such mechanism, there's no reason to think that small changes in species populations don't accumulate forever.
IDers don't do science, they only tear down science.
There are >150 years of fossil evidence. Scientist argue about some of the fine points, but the overall pattern is becoming pretty clear.
The reason we are having this debate is that some people with specific religious beliefs are entering the fray. They generally know little about the actual fossils, but their belief leads them to try to denigrate the scientific process in order to cast doubt on the results.
Quite true. That one fact just goes to show that human designers, which is what ID is based on, cannot consider all possibilities in their designs consequently they miss advantages. Evolution on the other hand is built just as our human knowledge is, new knowledge is based on a foundation of prior knowledge, with a few random ideas thrown in. After humans have been designing things for as long as evolution has, I'm sure we'll be able to handle more complicated designs. Unfortunately for ID, our inability to see all possibilities means we can not currently determine what could be designed unless it happens to resemble human designs. No guarantee that aliens would design like we do or would not emulate nature in their designs.
"If a Ferrari engine couldn't just happen, how in hell are those kinds of things supposed to?"
Do what engineers do [evolution], break large jobs up into many small easily handled jobs [cells], start with the smallest jobs possible [bacteria/virii/prions], use trial and error to determine the best fit [mutation and selection], base new designs on modified old designs [common descent], and take a very long time [3.8 billion years].
Another one for my "they've got to be kidding me!" file.
This is what gives academics a bad name.The latter part of this headline is clearly and unambiguously an opinion, not a fact; and just as clearly beyond the ken of a "biology expert".
Do you have an actual example of this happening. (ie someone on the science side of the debate conflating YEC with creationism in general) I ask because the person whose post you originally complained about, who equated creationism with YEC per se, is himself a creationist.
And don't you believe that God controls "natural forces"?
Saying that species evolved by "natural forces" and saying that "God created species" in my mind is saying the same thing.
People always get angry at me when I suggest this exact same possibility. Atheists don't like it and neither do Christians in general. It is a lonely position to take.
LOL!
Some people have both obsessions and way too much free time!
I hope that I don't live near you. Apparently you believe that the only thing stopping you from raping and pillaging is your religious belief and the attendant rejection of evolution. Please let us all know if you ever get a crisis of faith.
Check into Cosmology and Quantum physics for that one.
Not necessarily. Many Evolutionists/Darwinists believe exactly that.
Ah, creative editing to change the meaning of one's opponent's words. Lovely.
Really?
Didn't the "Intelligent Designer" create life? ID is another way of stating that we were created, and is therefore "creationism", whether or not it includes specific references to the Bible and Genesis.
Or access to some fairly decent database and web design software.
Actually he can kill you, rape your daughter and slay your infant son. All he needs to hear is the magic word 'Midianite' and he's off to the races.
Stopped reading about there.
If youre smart enough to get into Harvard, you should be smart enough to stay out.
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