The Bigger They Are...

Linux Today ^ | 16 September 2005 | Brian Proffitt

[ShadowAce]

[thulldud]

Related point. Just this week I heard, for the first time, the term "WinRot." It refers to the staleness that develops in a Windows system over time, which can only be fixed by a wipe and reinstall. All that roach-motel code, third party DLL's and cryptic registry settings build up like boiler scale, and there's no non-destructive way to get them all out.

Is there a corresponding "lin-rot?" I don't think so.

[ShadowAce]

Is there a corresponding "lin-rot?" I don't think so.

I had never heard the term winrot before. But it sounds like a good description of what happens to a consumer-level machine after all the installs/uninstalls, etc. Business-class machines are a different story due to company policies that may be in force.

The reason linux doesn't suffer from this is due to the fundamental difference in how programs install, and the way the system keeps track of installed programs. There is no complicated registry in Linux, and thus if a program can install itself, it all also have the necessary permissions to uninstall everything it installed.

[clyde asbury]

History and human nature bump.

[flashbunny]

I've experienced 'win rot' as being the computer person for my family.

People install all sorts of useless crap, from themes to programs they use once and never do again, to whatever their friends tell them about via email. Then it comes to me, where I hear "The computer is running really slow" or "It keeps crashing" or whatever problem is caused by whatever combination of programs they're running that day.

After being told exactly what happened - (i.e., what you did caused it. You installed too much crap and didn't have clue what you were doing.) their solution is to go out and buy another computer. Where the same thing will likely happen again.

Most people just don't get it. They think a computer is like a microwave or remote control - you can just keep doing whatever you want with it and it will work automatically.

[Golden Eagle]

Let's hope that if anything comes along and drives our most profitable tech company out of business, it's another US business equally as profitable, and not some foreign clone given away for free.

[Golden Eagle]

Absolutely worse, known as "dependency hell".

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22dependency+hell%22&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

[Golden Eagle]

The reason linux doesn't suffer from this is due to the fundamental difference in how programs install, and the way the system keeps track of installed programs.

ROFLOL

[blowfish]

Easily solved with a decent package manager. Since I've switched to SUSE linux I've had zero problems installing new apps. Painless, quick, everything working.

[joebuck]

"The Roman Empire used to control most of the European continent and we all know how that ended up. Things that are popular one moment can be replaced by something out with nary a qualm."

Petty bad comparison seeing as how Rome controlled most of europe for about 600 years. They certainly didn't disappear with "nary a qualm".

[Golden Eagle]

A real peice of cake, LOL

Here's a quick wrap up of how to install APT for RPM:

1. For SUSE 9.3, install apt4rpm SuSE packages by executing the following command from a shell (as root):
   rpm --install -hv ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.3/apt{-libs,}-0.5.15cnc7-0.suse093.rb0.i586.rpm
   For SUSE 9.2, install apt4rpm SuSE packages by executing the following command from a shell (as root):
   rpm --install -hv ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.2/apt{-libs,}-0.5.15cnc7-0.suse092.rb0.i586.rpm
   For SuSE 9.1, run the following command:
   rpm --install -hv ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.1/apt{-libs,}-0.5.15cnc6-0.suse091.rb.5.i586.rpm
   For SuSE 9.0, run the following command:
   rpm --install -hv ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.0/apt{-libs,}-0.5.15cnc7-0.suse090.rb.0.i586.rpm
   For SuSE 8.2, run the following command:
   rpm --install -hv ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/suse/extra/8.2/apt{-libs,}-0.5.5cnc6-rb3.i386.rpm
2. Optionally, if you want a nice GUI for apt, install synaptic (SUSE 9.3):
   rpm --install ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.3/synaptic-0.57-0.suse093.rb0.i586.rpm
   
   Use this one for SuSE 9.2:
   rpm --install ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.2/synaptic-0.55.3-0.suse092.rb2.i586.rpm
   
   Use this one for SuSE 9.1:
   rpm --install ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.1/synaptic-0.53-0.suse091.rb.1.i586.rpm
   
   Use this one for SuSE 9.0:
   rpm --install ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/9.0/synaptic-0.53-rb1.i586.rpm
   
   And this one for SuSE 8.2:
   rpm --install ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/apt4rpm/suse/extra/8.2/synaptic-0.44-rb1.i386.rpm
3. Initialize APT and check your system's consistency by executing the following command as root:
   apt-get check

Once you've got APT for RPM up and running, here's how to use my APT repository:

1. Import the RPM signing key: rpm --import http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/guru-rpm.asc
2. As root, edit the file named /etc/apt/sources.list
   In that file you'll find a line like this:
   # rpm ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/ SuSE/9.3-i386 update security
   Remove the comment sign (#) in front of the line to activate that source, like this:
   rpm ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/ SuSE/9.3-i386 update security
   And finally, add the "suser-guru" module at the end of that line:
   rpm ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/ SuSE/9.3-i386 update security suser-guru
   (note: replace "9.3-i386" by "9.2-i386", "9.1-i386", "9.0-i386" or "8.2-i386" if you're using SuSE 9.2, 9.1, 9.0 or 8.2 respectively)
3. Update the APT cache by executing the following command as root:
   apt-get update
   
   You'll probably want to do that on a regular basis, as it is required to see new packages that have been added to APT repositories since your last "update".

If you want to build from source RPMs, also add the following line:
rpm-src ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/ SuSE/9.3-i386 suser-guru
(note: replace "9.3-i386" by "9.2-i386", "9.1-i386", "9.0-i386" or "8.2-i386" if you're using SuSE 9.1, 9.0 or 8.2 respectively)

[blowfish]

Well, there *is* an extremely nice UI: the YaST Control Center.
So nice that I've never had to use the command line to update things. A few button clicks ad I've updated existing packages, added new packages etc. It took me all of 4 or 5 button clicks to install the latest Mozilla. I'm getting positively spoiled!

[ShadowAce]

Golden Eagle is a Communist

Dude--anyone can post a search. That is proof of absolutely nothing. Nor is it a "link to back up your points" as you so hastily add every time someone questions you.

[Golden Eagle]

The obvious difference is, my search link completely backed up my claim. Yours on the other hand, was nothing more than your normal name calling, since you have no other response to the facts.

[Golden Eagle]

Still looks like an excessive additional pain.

http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/tmp/doc/manual/sles-admin_en/html/ch02s03.html

[ShadowAce]

...was nothing more than your normal name calling, ...

Normal name calling? When was the last time I called anyone a name? Even when you called me a "chicom lover", I refrained.

My post was not name calling, but rather an example of how dumb it is thinking that a yahoo search is actually backing up anything.

You will get results on anything you enter as a search criterion, and merely linking to a search proves nothing.

"dependency hell" is also out of date, as every major distro uses a package manager that will check for and solve dependencies automatically.

[blowfish]

What can I say? I've had nothing but excellent experiences using the tool, and I'm looking forward to installing SuSE on my new computer at home.

[TechJunkYard]

Here's a quick wrap up of how to install APT for RPM:

Wow, for somebody who doesn't use Linux, it looks like you've got this down. (/sarcasm)

[ShadowAce]

What can I say?

Yeah--GE doesn't like anything about any OSS product. He'll try to find something nasty to say about it, as evidenced by his earlier post.

Unless, of course, the OSS product is BSD-licensed.