Delta files for bankruptcy protection

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 9-16-2005 | Russell Grantham

[greasepaint]

Because the middle class is shrinking,
the dinosaur airlines are doomed.

...

Why would anyone invest in an airline?

[Turbopilot]

Because the middle class is shrinking

False nonsense.

the dinosaur airlines are doomed.

False nonsense.

Why would anyone invest in an airline?

Vast capital investments, name recognition, and enormous established infrastructures for pennies on the dollar. Why not, at current prices?

[Tulsa Ramjet]

"The solution seemed to be to revamp the entire airport infrastructure".

Maybe I'm missing something here. When I fly Southwest, very little problems. If there is a problem, they fix it.

When I have flown Delta numerous times, and there are problems,...crickets.

Have you ever noticed that when you walk directly off some flights, there is no monitor to tell you where to go? Also, I had a recent incident where there was no one monitoring the information booth at DFW. So instead, a frequent flyer jumped up at the lectern and manned the booth and she gave out excellent information. I bet she helped 20-30 people and none of them had a clue she wasn't an employee. We both laughed about that.

[USNBandit]

I can tell you that right now there are no 3 yr 777 FOs at Delta.

[WoofDog123]

Well, if the major creditors WANT to keep current management then obviously they are going to have to give them an incentive. I am not sure if it is known if delta's management will be sacked or not, i don't follow airlines almost at all until they get their delisting and 'Q'

[newzjunkey]

They were in trouble before Katrina. If they go down, the marketplace will take up the slack. Compete or go out of business. Just don't come begging for tax dollars in a bailout scheme.

[phantomworker]

Within the SW airline itself, it might be efficient. The Southwest model is well-known, of course. But SWA has to interface with other airport operations such as security, the tower, Air Traffic Management, etc, etc. Many of these operations are not coordinated like they could be. As with any system of systems, the interfaces need to be managed, and within an airport, the interfaces between operations are not as efficiently managed as they could be.

[phantomworker]

Delta has 777's? Then they must be doing something right.

[RunningWolf]

Whats left at Delta? 10yr and above?

[RunningWolf]

airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/154/91/ shows the following for Delta 777

A 3yr 777 FO = $125 @ 65 HRS guaranteed

A 7yr 777 FO = $138 @ 65 HRS guaranteed

A 12yr 777 FO = $147 @ 65 HRS guaranteed

BTW is Delta still flying the 737-200?

[phantomworker]

http://www.delta.com/about_delta/corporate_information/delta_stats_facts/aircraft_fleet/index.jsp

[investigateworld]

Did DOT ever get around to arming pilots?

[RunningWolf]

Vast capital investments, name recognition, and enormous established infrastructures for pennies on the dollar.

I agree. The route structure of UAL is very strong, IMO it is what will save it.

Also it is a travesty that these low cost guys come in and get a free ride on the infrastructure that the majors built for them.

Take a JetBlue. You've got new AirBus's which Airbus practically gives them away for a few years, then that your non-routine maint. costs are almost nil for the 1st 6yrs approx, you've got new employees with no benefits, no vacation, lower pay, a tax break, you do your heavy maint. in El Salvador, you've got your reservation agents working out of their homes. WHO CANT MAKE MONEY WITH THAT?

[phantomworker]

At least Delta doesn't have any of that government-subsidized foreign-built Airbus junk in their fleet. lol

[RunningWolf]

Thnaks,

Those 737-200's and 737-100's are the ones that have been dropping out of the sky all over the world in the last few months.
That one that de-pressurized and then ran out of fuel over the ME was a -100 or -200 I recollect.
Those old dogs need to be in the bone the bone yard. That old theory you can maintain a plane (safely) forever has been shown to be wrong.

[phantomworker]

That's very interesting how JetBlue makes a profit. And that's true that Airbus practically gave those airplanes away. That's how they can claim they sell more planes than Boeing the last few years.

Do you think the larger carriers should or could emulate the JetBlue model of operations?

[RunningWolf]

Yes, but to do it they become a Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program

[RunningWolf]

I'm not in the ivory towers, or any mahogany rows but I am a long term insider, and thats where the basis of my opinions spring from.

I think they will and already are emulating the pieces they see advantageous too and that they can. At the same time they cant go all the way there, nor should they.

IMO JetBlue is like a Southwest. Southwest is very big, but they fill a niche with their 737 fleet and their style of service & like Jet Blue they won't replace the mainliners. You need the mainliners for the heavy lift long range capacity.

[investigateworld]

Thanks for the info, hopefully it's common.

[phantomworker]

Thanks, I appreciate that. Your opinions and analysis make a lot of sense. It's good insight.