Delta files for bankruptcy protection

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 9-16-2005 | Russell Grantham

[rkhampton]

there are only three things to blame: fuel, fuel, fuel.

If that were so, they'd all by going bankrupt. Delta doesn't pay any more than the others.

[phantomworker]

Of course it is facetious. I would be outraged if someone cut my salary, yet it is talked about like no big deal. And they have no rights to stand up for themselves. Big business, same as big government controls the worker. And these workers are highly skilled pilots. Who is going to be next?

[Pukin Dog]

I think most pilots will tell you that the money is not the issue. We are so well paid, that if we are not set for life by now, we are a dummy.

The thing that some will miss is the working conditions. Nobody flies who doesn't love it, but there is also all that wonderful time off between flights too.

[Turbopilot]

If that were so, they'd all by going bankrupt.

As of today, they all are bankrupt. Except American, which has a larger route structure that faces less competition from the discounters (and only narrowly avoided Ch. 11 through huge labor concessions), and the discounters themselves, who don't make any more money than the majors on the short profitable routes but who don't have to worry about the longer or less profitable routes.

[Andy'smom]

Thank you for your reassurance. We have recently purchased tickets for a late October flight to Atlanta (college trip).

[phantomworker]

What do you mean by that? Don't we all have to make a living somehow? It is the quality of work that is important. Yet there are many people whose quality of work sucks. And they can't do anything about it.

[nj26]

"If you want to "blame" any single factor, look at fuel prices. A distant second is labor, but Delta has and is continuing to cut those costs. But with fuel at a speculation-free $30-$35/barrel, Delta would be profitable."

Delta is also saddled with a poor route system. Its costs are actually below average for a legacy carrier (at least following the 2004 wage concessions) but the revenue yield on its system is farther below average.

The Atlanta hub continues to be workhorse of the system, but Cincinnati and Salt Lake City are marginal hubs, at best. And Delta management took about 10 years too long to close the DFW hub.

The best thing that Delta management could have done in the past 15 years is to have merged with Continental when it had a chance (about 7 years ago.) They could have consolidated the DFW hub into Houston, and the JFK international operation into Newark.

Rumors are that Delta and Northwest might get together as they pass out of bankruptcy.

Somehow or another, Delta needs to rethink its route system. Cost-cutting isn't going to solve that problem.

[RunningWolf]

for the vast majority of pilots with more than a couple years senority, it would be very difficult to even approach their former salaries in a non-flying career?

That would be true, even staying in a flight career.
Its odd for sure, money is not the issue. but look what ALPA did at UAL?? And the ALPA pilot group was playing catchup to the Delta pilots. Hmmmmm... Hmmmmm... So many contradictions

[ordinaryguy]

You might be right. Any predictions on who the survivors will be?

[Turbopilot]

That would be true, even staying in a flight career.

It would be impossible staying in flying. The lucky ones might get to restart their senority flying right-seat at a regional or fractional corporate jet op for mayne $25-$28k/year, but there are lots more furloughed pilots than jobs. Flight instruction or flying freight at night is even worse than that.

The smart/prescient pilots might have gone to grad school at night and could start up in a new career for a reasonable salary. But for most, they've invested so much time and money in their flying career that they'd essentially have to start at the bottom someplace new. It's just that the "bottom" in many non-flying occupations can pay better than even a few steps up from the bottom in flying.

[Pukin Dog]

Nationals: JetBlue, Southwest, United, American, USAir.

The rest will be regionals or feeders.

International is a crapshoot.

Delta is dead.

[Tulsa Ramjet]

"Nothing will change immediately regarding operations."

That's right folks. They will still manage ineptly, and their customer service will still be atrocious. What am I talking about, you say? I'll tell you what recently happended to me. Last December I flew OUTCONUS and my mother and stepfather, a Korean war vet, came out to meet me. He got hurt and had to stay in a hospital and I stayed with him until he could fly out. I had hell convincing Delta to change his ticket so he could fly back to the states. Reluctantly their "special services" on the phone agreed. I arrived at the airport ticket desk with my stepfather, gave them a confirmation number, and stood back and watched the games begin. The desk jockey said they couldn't honor the request even though I had a confirmation number. I was told I had to buy another ticket. It was 11pm at night and I looked over at my stepfather sitting in a wheelchair brought directly from the airport with a catheter inserted, and bought another 1100.00 ticket. As we were flying back CONUS I turned to someone sitting next to me and said that there was no doubt that this airline was going to go under.

You tell the corporate execs and those in charge of "special services", and their jobs, to rot in hell.
They deserve it. Hopefully the mechanics can get on at American, who does a decent job, and Southwest who does an incredible job.

[RunningWolf]

Source
www.airlinepilotcentral.com

JetBlue A320 Capt Max out at 12yrs @139/hr @80 hrs a month = 135000 Approx

JetBlue A320 3yr FO @$61/hr @80 hrs a month = 58560 Approx

Delta 777 3yr FO @125/hr @65 hrs a month = 105000 Approx

[phantomworker]

Last year I did a simulation study of airport operations. We all have personal stories to share about poor service, but anyone would be shocked at the total number of inefficiencies. For example, there is no decent communication system to coordinate ground operations and so many different businesses and unions service the airplane, that it is almost impossible to have any coordination at all.

The solution seemed to be to revamp the entire airport infrastructure, but because there is no single unit of control, it is almost impossible to change anything. Most airports are run by a port authority and government often has no incentive to make improvements. Here is one area where improvements could be made that would result in great cost savings that could also help the airline's bottom line.

[patton]

Arena?

[phantomworker]

Extend

[patton]

Junk.

[longtermmemmory]

either they conceed or a bankrupcy judge will simply order a "cram down" concession.

[phantomworker]

Junk? Tool of choice.

[patton]

For people with no choice. Those that work for large firms, for instance.