Posted on 08/26/2005 4:37:24 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Wrong again, bucko........and I have absolutey nothing to "get over". Go study up on your laws a bit more, then come talk to me.
Don't worry. There's an Amen Corner here on Free Republic that says that once Americans walk out of their house, they hace NO rights.
And a person standing on a street corner, doing absolutely nothing wrong, in which the cop even admitted no probable cause---guilty until proven innocent? If you say yes to that question, then my next one is: " What are you doing on Free Republic "?
If this lady (or her lawyer) knows anything about the law, she's gonna OWN these guys.
Federal Privacy Act of 1974:
A government agency must provide a disclosure notice each time the agency requests an individual's social security number. The notice must state (1) whether the disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, (2) by what authority the SSN is required, and (3) what use will be made of the SSN. (Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 in Historical Note, 5 U.S.C. § 552a)
Social Security Act:
Anyone who discloses, uses or compels disclosure of an SSN in violation of the laws of the United States is guilty of a felony punishable by a fine or imprisonment up to five years or both. (42 U.S.C. § 408(a)(8))
Don't know how many times I've told government agents to take a hike because THEY don't think they have to follow legal procedures.
It's GREAT feeling to strangle these maroons with their own bureaucracy. :)
You may be on safer ground responding with, "I want to confer with my attorney first".
Did either of you do any background research on this woman? (a possible clue as to her attitude towards police)
Did either of you know that she traveled to Cuba to take pictures of decaying buildings?
Did either of you know that the area that she was in is an area of potential prostitution activity?
Did either of you read anything from the Cops POV?
Were either of you privy to the information available to the local policeman?
Here is what I think happened:
The cop suspected her of possible prostitution, but did not want to specifically say so, in case he was wrong.
He innocently asked for her ID and more info to either determine if she was a hooker (possible prior arrests) or to let her know that the area is being watched.
She became infuriated and let him know it, in no uncertain terms.
He arrested her, because he was ticked off at her reaction.
The Sargent came out, cooled things down and released her.
Was the cop wrong...........probably.
Did the woman overreact to the questions...........yes.
Do cops have the right to ask us for ID...........yes.
Should we treat cops with respect? .............yes.
Have many here assumed the cop was wrong with insufficient evidence on which to base that conclusion?.............YES
Beg your pardon. I'm just thinking that 1) innocent people are not usually hassled by police for NO reason; 2) her attitude was combative, I thought. She could have chosen, instead, just to cooperate, perhaps just out of civility; and 3)just maybe there is more to this story. No need to take me on. I just have a different opinion than you.
Beg your pardon. I'm just thinking that 1) innocent people are not usually hassled by police for NO reason; 2) her attitude was combative, I thought. She could have chosen, instead, just to cooperate, perhaps just out of civility; and 3)just maybe there is more to this story. No need to take me on. I just have a different opinion than you.
Hear! Hear!
I might agree with you, except the cop said there was no probable cause. Additionally, just because the woman took a trip to Cuba does not establish probable cause. Neither does her presence in an area noted for prostitution.
If you read this thread you will see that it is I that pointed out the possible protitution suspicion.
I will agree that we need to treat law enforcement official with respect. Our society has been lax in this regard...also with regard to our soldiers.
But, I've had an experience with a cop that just went WAY overboard. I'm a 48 year old grandma with no arrest, no traffic violations, nothing period. I have 5 grown children. One of them is serving in the armed forces and was in the Iraq. I've taught my children the importance of respect...they are all just wonderful contributing members of society. I was not shown any respect either. I was wrestled, roughed up, cuffed, held in the cruiser, and basically belittled with little reason other than I had the audacity to question why this cop was at my house. No charges were ever filed, no "rights" were given me, even though I was being held.
So, from my experience I would say that some cops need to chill out. What threat was I, (even if I was a known criminal) to the cop. He was 5 9" and about 215 pounds. Me, I'm 5'3" and 130. I was obviously not armed, I was standing out in my yard in tight jeans and a T-shirt. Oh yeah, and I have an hispanic surname.
Of course not, nor did I say it did. But it gives me a small clue as to the political leanings of this woman (an artist + Cuba = probable strong leftist) . Yes, that is an assumption on my part. It also gives me a clue as to why she reacted so strongly.
Neither does her presence in an area noted for prostitution.
If they are trying to keep prostitutes out of an area, one way to do it is to approach them and ask them to move along, harass them a bit. Yeah, it is not 'by the book' but that type of police work is appreciated by others. A woman standing by herself on a street corner in an area of possible prostitution activity should not be too surprised if a cop approaches her.
I suppose if he asked her for a 50-50, she would have then sued for sexual harassment.
She became infuriated and let him know it, in no uncertain terms.
He arrested her, because he was ticked off at her reaction."
C'mon, Michael. Let's PLEASE stop torturing logic as well as the facts here, shall we??
Occam's Razor. He didn't just ask for her ID (SSN? I don't THINK so, bud). "Innocently"? What does that mean? Doesn't apply here at all, and quite a leap on your part. He was a cowboy, pure and simple. The results of this whole affair bear that out. Never should have happened in the first place. Have you never in your life run across some hotdog, pushy, "there's God then there's ME" sort of cop? I sure have....and I think most have. Cops that I know will wax eloquent on the topic for hours about their own (and they swear State Troopers are the absolute worst, for some reason).
How do you know or even suspect that she became "infuriated", simply because she refused to comply with a clearly un-Constitutional bullying tactic?
......and the real kicker........he arrested her "because he got ticked off at her reaction". Whew...........Michael, please show me that law on any of the books in the US of A. If you find it, I'm moving.
Here are some of the phrases used from which that conclusion was drawn:
"eventually provided the requested information,"
"cited based on her initial resistance."
"In response to her repeated questions,"
finally complied, but was cited for allegedly interfering with or obstructing an officer by giving false information and by refusing to give information."
Remember this article was written to make her appear sympathetic and gives no other side to the story. You are basing ALL of your assumptions based on her perspective. I am willing to assume the cop is innocent, you have assumed the opposite.
Let's PLEASE stop torturing logic as well as the facts here, shall we?? He was a cowboy, pure and simple. - Again you are assuming the worst possible behavior on his part based on facts not in evidence.
Have you never in your life run across some hotdog, pushy, "there's God then there's ME" sort of cop? I sure have....
It all depends on how you handle it. if you give them attitude, it escalates.
......and the real kicker........he arrested her "because he got ticked off at her reaction". Whew...........Michael, please show me that law on any of the books
Your dealing with your idealized idea of what the law should be, I am dealing with reality. Where I grew up and first started driving we regularly cruised certain areas, sometimes in our town, often in others. We soon learned a few things:
In some towns, you don't F with the cops.
When pulled over if you treated them with respect, you had a 50-50 chance of getting a warning.
If you gave them attitude, you had a 100% chance of getting a ticket and a 50-50 chance of worse treatment.
All that may not fit in the law books, but all of that is reality. You never get respect, by not giving any.
Sorry to hear of your experience. I fully acknowledge that there way too many bad cops, but until proved to be a bad cop, I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt, call me an optimist.
The real problem I have with some of the comments made is that they have assumed the worst possible of the cop involved, when they have only heard one side.
Ouch. I was not aware of that one.
Between that and Kelo, significant chunks of the BoR are just gone.
I just happened along the thread, and wondered wth you were talking about with Dudley. What did he do?
The problem is A) the cops and B) the courts.
Wear your chains lightly.
"I just happened along the thread, and wondered wth you were talking about with Dudley. What did he do?"
Dudley was a victim of his own ignorance. And what man lets his teenage daughter drive him around in his own truck anyway? That is a sign of someone light in the shorts....Or drunk off his rocker. I also think the cops could have handled this case much better.
"The problem is A) the cops and B) the courts."
(This is a very telling statement from you)....I see, its never anyone who is the problem...... Even if they act like an idiot, it is always the cops and the courts fault ? Come on, I am not buying the every cop is a crook and every Judge is a moron senario. That is a camp I do not pitch my tent with..... There are some good people out there doing a fine job, and I am not going to arbitrarily start bashing them.
"Wear your chains lightly."
If you don`t know anything about the case ( asking me what Dudley did , leads me to believe this, unless you are just lying ), then how can you make any comment about me wearing my chains lightly?
I have not taken sides on the woman and the cops on this thread, but since I automatically don`t bash the cops, some people think I sympathize with the cops, which is not true. I have personally been on both ends with some cops, the good and the bad. And the bad times I deserved what I got !!
All I am waiting for is more information before I bash anyside. I guess some people have a problem with that.
Now I know all about ole Dudley. And have conluded that he did the wrong thing, and I agree with the courts ruling, to an extent. This is not saying that I always agree with the courts, or the cops. So don`t start pinning me with a stigma I don`t deserve.
Yep, I do believe you have nailed it.
Except when the person in question is an illegal alien or is attempting to vote.....
Appropo the story in Georgia. ACLU is challenging the state's new law requiring a photo ID to vote.
It's not even subtle on the part of the ACLU; they want illegals voting and DIMs voting multiple times. There is absolutely no other logical reason for opposing this law.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.