Posted on 08/24/2005 9:40:44 PM PDT by RobFromGa
In a perfect world, maybe.Are you denying that competition, in this not-so-perfect world, affects pricing?
And this helps your argument how?
Embedded taxes do not represent taxes paid by employees. I still cannot understand how anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of economics believes this. Taxes paid by employees in the form of income taxes come from wages paid by the employer. The 23% has absolutely nothing to do with those wages. Do the wages affaect the overall price? Yes. But they are not part of the 23% of taxes embedded in the cost of products. The 23% comes from taxes paid by the employer and by the employer alone.
The salary is already being paid. It is not figured into the 23%. The 23% is from taxes paid by the employer. The wages affect the price, but they are a separate issue.
OK, why do you say it's only 6 or 7% when all the economists who were cited for the book say it's 23%?
Embedded taxes are whatever the person who did the research said they are. And the researcher who did the study and was paid for it by Americans For Fair Taxation (people who run fairtax.org) has stated clearly that he included taxes paid by employees as embedded taxes to come up with the often quoted 22% number. If you want to define it as something else fine, but the 22% number is meaningless with your definition and is in fact dishonest at that point.
Have you read this thread???
The employer's income is not being cut by 20% (it's 23% by the way). The taxes, which add 23% to the employer's cost per unit is cut. The savings realized by the employer is passed on in the form of a price cut. Cut the cost 23%; cut the price 23%, and the per unit profit remains the same.
THE economist cited, Dr. Jorgenson, has said that 22% number for embedded taxes includes taxes paid by the employee. How many times must this be said? The FairTax organization has been GROSSLY misrespresenting this number for years. My 6-7% number comes directly from figures from the IRS on total taxes paid by businesses including business share of payroll taxes and the NIPA numbers for consumption.
No it is not.
Their customers pay the 23% tax on the sale of their services, not them. The taxes they pay for personal purchases that have nothing to do with the business are a separate item anyway.
Any tax they pay when they spend money is a personal purchase that has nothing to do with the business. Under the Fair Tax, their business is not paying any taxes anyway. Neither would they pay taxes on any salary assigned to themselves as an employee of the business. They are currently paying an income tax. If they are fairly successful, you can bet it's higher than 23%. With the fair tax, they will pay their taxes in a different way. The benefit is the elimination of the IRS, and the fact that the Fair Tax doesn't punish productivity. like the current tax code does. The top 50% of income earners currently pay 96% of all federal income taxes. The Fair Tax shifts some of that burden off of the most productive people, and makes the folks who pay nothing start helping out. Even those folks will benefit, as the rebate check for basic necessities up to the poverty line will help them.
Nothing to do with the business??? Are you guys serious??? How can tacking a 30% (not a 23%) tax on a service not effect the business? Besides it is the business who must charge the tax as part of thier bill, and collect the tax, and remit the tax. That 30% tax has a huge bearing on whether I am going to pay someone for that service.
I would be there is not one Fortune 500 company that pays anywhere near 23% of their gross on federal taxes.
Neal Boortz has stated that this isn't a tax cut. It is a way to levy taxes in a more efficient and fair manner. Many who are paying nothing will now pay. The IRS, and the tremendous cost of funding that institution will disappear. Foreigners will now pay taxes in America, regardless of how long they stay, or what their status is. People disagree on the 23%. Fair enough. Boortz and Linder used the brains of many economists to write this book. I tend to believe his numbers. I guess that's where we disagree.
I have been following the hurricane threads. Have you heard anything from Boortz or Linder? I e-mailed Boortz and haven't heard a thing.
How can you believe the numbers when the economists who wrote them says they are wrong. Even fellow fairtaxer Mind-numbed Robot admited it was a mistake here.
You're right about one thing ... the "silly you" part. Additionally you've illustrated your complete lack of understanding of how the cascading of taxes works.
There were never any "generally accepted accounting practices" mentioned in explaining the example nor was there ever any thing described as "pigdog's term". What the example meant by those terms could be clearly understood either by viewing the example in #311 (if you bothered to think about what it meant) or by reading the description in #546.
In fact you even more clearly indicated your lack of understanding of the example when you pretended the input price was the real item of interest. Perhaps you really do not understand that "tax costs as % of sell price" is clearly the item of interest since it represents the percentage of tax coss that have cascaded and become embedded into prices and that percentage (which converges asymptotically to a given value as I have said) is what the end use consumer will pay as a percentage of whatever he purchases.
And you're now trying the age-old liberal stunt of trying to impugn someone who does not agree with you. In fact, it's apparent that you do not understand the cascading of embedded tax costs at all. You've clearly shown that without even realizing it.
"Hard facts"??? In whose opinion - let me guess ... yours???
How can you possibly still be in denial when it comes from the horses mouth? You are a piece of work. At least mind-numbed Robot has seen the light on this one.
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