Posted on 08/24/2005 11:06:51 AM PDT by rob777
You said,
"Can't refute his points, so you call him a troll. Point out where the article is inaccurate, please"
Well, since you asked me to, I checked the statistics published by the Bureau of Economic Analysis on July 29, 2005.
The BEA reported that for 2004:
GDP was $11,734 billion
Total government spending (federal, state and local) was $2,216 billion
And FEDERAL spending was $827 bilion.
This means that FEDERAL spending as a percent of GDP in 2004 was 7.05%, NOT 20.3% as alleged in the article. I do believe that's a "point" for me.
BTW, total government spending as a percent of GDP in 2004 was 18.89%. This percentage may be compared with the figure from 2002: 18.73%.
Agreed, with the proviso much of that spending is simply wasted.
Sorry, this is not a solution. No third party, not even one that had a Ronald Reagan as its President could defeat the socialists in Congress. There were solid reasons why Reagan changed from being a Democrat and became a Republican. Only the Republicans can defeat the Democrats.
It is the Republican party that We the people must change. After labor day when people are back from vacations and starting to tune more to politics, there will a series of articles posted here that will offer a way to move Republicans substantially to the right. We can take our country back and the Republicans are going to do it for us.
If anything WE are the ones being bashed. Patriots who want to enforce laws that the government wont enforce are called "vigilantes" by Bush. This same leftist term is used by the commie lawyer Morris from SLPC who took that mans ranch away on behalf of some illegals.
Then, when the base was rumbling about the potential of Gonzales being picked for SCOTUS, we were told to quiet down.
Only three and a half billion more, not counting the GDP increase. Who said it, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
Who said it, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
Everitt Dirkson was given credit for it, but there is a question as to whether it can be verified or not.
BFLR = Bump for later reading.
Bush got 47.87% of the voters in 2000 and 50.73% in 2004. That's not enough for a revolution, so there won't be one. If Reagan couldn't pull it off, there's no way Bush could.
"Revolution" can be a distraction from what needs to be done. The problem is that Bush hasn't done what he could do -- use his veto, not increase budgets, not propose new programs -- to keep spending under control.
So I guess we need a watch-dog group to keep track of our Republican "big spenders", so we confront them with their wastrel ways during the primaries
watch dog ...hmm .. I thought the party was the watch dog.
I want to know what good the party really is?
We collect money , then give it to whom ever agrees to put an r by their name.
The local party should be able to decide if someone can run on the ticket.
To avoid the process of getting names on a petition to get on the ballot, many polititions simply run under the party lable that they think gives them the best chance to win.
If party rules were somehow available to give the local party the option of telling someone NO .. you cant run on our slate , then we might be able to get rid of some of the rinos ..
"It may be huge, it may be Super-Sized, but since we control it, we like it!"
How is it that "we" control it. I haven't noticed my Republican representatives doing much of anything conservative. They do what the party leadership tells them and that ain't why I voted for them.
I was just paraphrasing the logic of the Kool-Aid drinkers.
"However, once that bill was on his desk, it WAS necessary that President Bush sign it."
How come? He could have vetoed it because of the pork and sent it back for another try.
He has yet to veto anything, hence the skyrocketing spending.
If you will surf over to "www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm" you will see in Table 1B the figures I was working with.
These figures were issued 8/23/2005 -- which suggests they are more accurate than the figures you used, which preceded the BEA fugures by several months. But I think there is no need for us to debate whether the CBO or the BEA is "more accurate", because YOUR second link (to About.com) makes my point very well.
We should agree that Table 6 at your link shows that "federal government spending" (however that is defined by the CBO) was 19.8% of GDP in 2004.
That table also shows that the LOWEST percentage of GDP consumed by "federal government spending" during the Reagan presidency was 21.2%.
This confirms my view that your hyper-concern about excessive government spending during the Bush presidency lacks perspective.
Although I agree that are far too many wasteful government projects being funded and I think its a great shame that the "line-item-veto" was disallowed, I also think that, given that GWB is spending comparatively LESS than President Reagan, "panic" is not the proper emotion for us Republicans to be feeling now.
If you will surf over to "www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm" you will see in Table 1B the figures I was working with.
These figures were issued 8/23/2005 -- which suggests they are more accurate than the figures you used, which preceded the BEA fugures by several months. But I think there is no need for us to debate whether the CBO or the BEA is "more accurate", because YOUR second link (to About.com) makes my point very well.
We should agree that Table 6 at your link shows that "federal government spending" (however that is defined by the CBO) was 19.8% of GDP in 2004.
That table also shows that the LOWEST percentage of GDP consumed by "federal government spending" during the Reagan presidency was 21.2%.
This confirms my view that your hyper-concern about excessive government spending during the Bush presidency lacks perspective.
Although I agree that are far too many wasteful government projects being funded and I think its a great shame that the "line-item-veto" was disallowed, I also think that, given that GWB is spending comparatively LESS than President Reagan, "panic" is not the proper emotion for us Republicans to be feeling now.
You said,
"These jerks have been telling us, "Just put us in power, and we'll take our country back to limited, Constitutional government that spends less and intrudes into your life less." Well, we did, and they spent more and intruded more."
It's just my opinion, of course, but I think the road back to "...limited, Constitutional government..." passes right through the Supreme Court. As long as we have activist liberal judges RULING, for example, that New York State MUST increase "educational spending" by raising taxes and RULING that environmental "concerns" can STOP any free-market-driven economic process or development and RULING that the goofy free-speech suppressing McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Bill IS "constitutional" and RULING that illegal aliens are entitled to same legal protections (or more!) as American citizens, our freedoms are at risk.
This opinion leads me to say that I think it would be short-sighted for Republicans to forsake the needs and wants of "middle America" NOW in order to achieve some sort of "orthodox" ideological purity NOW -- and, as a consequence, return to minority party status BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT IS DE-LIBERALIZED.
I remember that part of Ronald Reagan's "genius" was that he rejected the historical pattern: "Democrats increase spending; Republicans increase taxes." IMHO, Reagan's un-orthodox rejection of "balanced budgets" planted the seeds for the Congressional majorities that we have now (albeit with too many RINOs).
I think that, if political compromise NOW leads to a political majority, with the potential to add enough new Republicans to overcome the RINOs and ULTIMATELY make some much-needed changes in the Courts, the Departments and the Agencies, then I am all for political compromise NOW.
I should also mention that even "wasteful" government spending adds jobs to the economy. If the Democrats' fondest 2004 campaign wish -- that GWB had been the "only-job-losing President since Herbert Hoover" -- HAD been granted, then, instead of seeing President Bush nominate Judge Roberts to replace Justice O'Connor at the US Supreme Court, you might have seen President Kerry nominate Senator Kennedy for that pivotal seat.
I apologize if I spoiled your dinner with that image...
LOL!
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