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Principles of War
August 18, 2005 | Yasotay

Posted on 08/18/2005 6:06:22 PM PDT by Yasotay

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To: Yasotay
"I posted this article on the Principles of War as taught at West Point. It is an academic tool to evaluate battles, operations and war. I used it to start a discussion on the subject here on FR. Tell me what war is?"

According to the USDOD, war is a clash of wills. The main enemy in the war on terror is the collection of State and nonstate actors that are engaged in terror tactics to thwart efforts to to promote peaceful and free commerce and the efforts to establish the honoring of rights and their protection.

The offensive began when the jihadists that mounted the attack on the US had the lands where they were free to operate and were given govm't support, were taken from them. They were either taken outright, as in Afghanistan and Iraq, or the govm'ts of others were moved to contain the terrorists. The US never let up on the offensive. The main focus of the jihadists is now the US mil in Iraq. The minor focus is the various civilian population centers around the world in desperation to force world opinion against the US. Their efforts there are counter productive.

As far as Iran and their nukes go, that is not part of the war on terror. That is a separate matter. It involves Putin's Russia and takes the form of traditional national conflict. The govm't of Iran itself, as with NK, is posing as a hostile nation.

Most of the principles you mentioned are not principles of war. They are elements of strategy.

121 posted on 08/18/2005 9:34:29 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Yasotay
.... I'm going to have to read Corbett .... clearly West Point likes Mahan.

One of Corbett's teachings, in contrast to Mahan's doctrine to seek out the enemy for a decisive encounter, was that chasing around the Globe trying to bring your enemy to a decisive battle often results in striking a "blow in the air" or finding the enemy in a place of his own choosing.

Instead, Corbett advised occupying a place of high strategic value and forcing the enemy to come to you.

"It should be borne in mind that if you seek it (the enemy fleet) out with a superior force, you will probably find it in a place where you cannot destroy it, except at very heavy cost. It is far better to make it come to you..."

That strategy is now in effect in Iraq.

122 posted on 08/18/2005 9:52:09 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: spunkets
The definition of "War" in the US Army and West Point is: "The condition in the life of a political group where violence and destruction of considerable duration or magnitude are directed against a rival political group that is powerful enough to make the outcome of the conflict uncertain for a time."

Most of the principles you mentioned are not principles of war. They are elements of strategy.

Yes they are .... You can Google "MOUSE MOSS" or "Principles of War" and see for yourself. Strategy is separate and is part of the "Threads of Continuity". The Threads are both Internal and External. The Internal Threads are Military Professionalism, Tactics, Strategy, Logistics and Administration, Military Theory and Doctrine, and Generalship. The External Threads are Political, Social, Economic Factors and Technology ....

Strategy is the planning for, coordinating of, and concerted use of the multiple means and resources available to an alliance, a nation, a political group, or a commander, for the purpose of gaining an advantage over a rival. It is divided into grand, national, military and campaign strategy.

IMHO, the US stopped offensive operations sometime shortly after the fall of Iraq. During our elections the reasons were political. We will just have to disagree on that point.

Since the Iranian President was involved in the 1979 embassy take over and with our old embassy still a HQ for their revolutionaries with a Museum to the Great Satan, It is clear that Iran is a Terrorist State. I believe that since 1979 the heart and most of the brains of terrorism lies in Tehran.

123 posted on 08/18/2005 10:13:39 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: Polybius

I don't think Nelson would agree with your post .... if I remember correctly he was "blowing in the air" after Napoleon for nine months until the Battle of the Nile ..... I've got to go to bed .... to be continue....besides doesn't Rumsfeld still think there is no insurgency? Stumbling into that strategy by accident is not strategy....


124 posted on 08/18/2005 10:21:43 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: LachlanMinnesota
Believe it or NOT there are DAILY press releases with accompaning VIDEO about the reconstruction efforts and in general the GOOD news that is happening in IRAQ.

The MSM doesn't care and won't risk life or limb to cover and report the GOOD when all they have to do is sit in the luxury of a hotel and wait for a roadside bomb and the latest casualty count of the day........and report that!

125 posted on 08/18/2005 10:31:48 PM PDT by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: PISANO
Believe it or NOT there are DAILY press releases with accompaning VIDEO about the reconstruction efforts and in general the GOOD news that is happening in IRAQ. The MSM doesn't care and won't risk life or limb to cover and report the GOOD when all they have to do is sit in the luxury of a hotel and wait for a roadside bomb and the latest casualty count of the day........and report that!

Yep, as sad as it is to say. Our Government does a better job of reporting what is going on then the "journalists" are doing.

126 posted on 08/18/2005 10:53:54 PM PDT by MNJohnnie ( Brick by brick, stone by stone, the Revolution grows)
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To: Polybius
trying to bring your enemy to a decisive battle often results in striking a "blow in the air" or finding the enemy in a place of his own choosing.


Which is what the Cast Iron right is advocating with their "take out Syria and Iran right NOW" mindset. As I keep asking those who scream "GW is letting them have sanctuary".

What are your targets? What are your goals? Really easy to scream "hit the pipeline thru Syria" lot harder to actually do that with a foe that is indistinguishable from the civilians around them. So what then? Since their bases and sources of supply are covert there is no "Haiphong Harbor" or "Ho Chi Min" trail to hit to stop up the pipeline. Strike into Syria or Iran and all the Terrorist need to do is fade back into their civilian lives until we are forced by time and cost to move on to the next hot spot. To fight terrorist we need to have a battlefield that they HAVE to come fight on. Death Ground as Sun Tze calls it. Iraq, part of the "holy" Arabina peninsula, currently is that death ground.
127 posted on 08/18/2005 11:03:51 PM PDT by MNJohnnie ( Brick by brick, stone by stone, the Revolution grows)
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To: Yasotay
I don't think Nelson would agree with your post .... if I remember correctly he was "blowing in the air" after Napoleon for nine months until the Battle of the Nile .....

Remember, that post was Corbett's dictum. I can't take credit for it.

Corbett would point out that Nelson was "blowing in the air" until the French fleet stopped at the strategic point of Aboukir Bay. The French made Nelson come to them at a prepared position. Be that as it may, and although the French out-gunned the British, Nelson's superior tactics prevailed.

Corbett cited a previous Mediterranean chase:

"....in 1704, Admiral Sir George Rooke was unable to seek out the Toulun fleet but, by seizing Gibraltar, he made it come to him".

Corbett did step on quite a few Royal Navy toes by daring to criticize Nelson, the Royal Navy's minor deity.

Corbett believed that Nelson's statement that he would be willing to see his fleet destroyed if he could cripple the French fleet in the process was highly irresponsible.

Corbett pointed out that, while a Continental land power had a fleet as a luxury and could take extreme risks with it as it was not vital to survival, a maritime nation such as Britain that depended on its fleet for its very survival could not afford to risk the destruction of that fleet in a cavalier fashion.

128 posted on 08/18/2005 11:06:34 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
I will continue reading up on Corbett this weekend. I just finished reading Williamson Murray's online account of Corbett. Murray was one of my "Ps" at West Point, when he was visiting professor and I have alot of respect from him. It's pretty clear that Corbett is a Naval Clausewitz .... I like Churchill, while Churchill had his faults, I don't think Corbett was in Churchill's camp .... luckily for England ..... there seems to be a concept error here if the Nelson /Churchill part of the Royal Navy didn't like Corbett there must be a reason ..... I'll be looking up Admiral Jackie Fisher .....
129 posted on 08/19/2005 8:13:06 AM PDT by Yasotay
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To: Yasotay
there seems to be a concept error here if the Nelson /Churchill part of the Royal Navy didn't like Corbett there must be a reason ..... I'll be looking up Admiral Jackie Fisher .....

Corbett was a member of Fisher's "Fish Pond".

Corbett also stepped on more Royal Navy toes when he was thought to be too sympathetic to Admiral John Jellicoe's performance when he wrote the official history of the Battle of Jutland.

Corbett's point was that, although Jutland did not result in a destruction of the German fleet, it was still a solid strategic victory as the German High Seas Fleet never ventured from port again. A more aggressive action may have jeopardized the survival of the British Grand Fleet without any further strategic benefit than what Jellicoe achieved.

130 posted on 08/19/2005 12:32:47 PM PDT by Polybius
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