Marine Accused in Shooting Pleads Innocent -- decorated Marine Daniel Cotnoir

Associated Press ^ | August 16, 2005 | DENISE LAVOIE

[King Prout]

yes.
Slugs, particularly sabot slugs, are bullets.

moreover, all shot pellets are, technically, bullets.

[Drew68]

He chose not to call the cops

He called the cops. Apparently the cops did nothing because it was after the police left that a bottle was thrown through his window.

For whatever reason, the police chose not to disperse the unruly crowd.

[rmlew]

There was clearly no intent to kill or even to cause harm. The guirl was hit only by indirect fire.
However, his actions were reckless and are assault.

[Former Military Chick]

Thanks for that update, must have missed that. But still, I am not sure that would have been my choice given what I have read. I think he is a lucky man.

BTW, this is the article being posted on the military.com site.

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LAWRENCE, Mass. - A veteran recently named "Marine of the Year" for his service in Iraq was charged with attempted murder after firing a shotgun from his apartment window as a group of noisy revelers stood outside a nightclub, police said. Two people were hit by bullet fragments and suffered minor injuries. Daniel Cotnoir, 33, had called police minutes earlier to complain about the noise coming from the street shortly before 3 a.m. Saturday, The Lawrence Eagle-Tribune reported. He later told authorities someone had thrown an empty bottle through his bedroom window and he feared for the safety of his wife and two daughters, who were home, the newspaper reported. Cotnoir was being held on $100,000 bail and scheduled to be arraigned Monday. "It was the craziest night of my life," said Kelvin Castro, 20, one of the two people injured. "I don't know what that guy's intentions were." Cotnoir has frequently called police to complain about noise and fights outside the Punto Finale nightclub. Last year, police said, he claimed someone leaving the club had fired a gunshot at his apartment. During his tour in Iraq last year, Cotnoir had been a military mortician responsible for preparing soldiers for open-casket funerals. The job took a heavy psychological toll, he told the Eagle-Tribune in an interview last month after the Marine Corps Times named Cotnoir its "Marine of the Year," an award presented to him at a ceremony in Washington. At the time, he was getting counseling at a veterans hospital. "It's a lot harder to talk about the job now than it was at the time to actually do it," Cotnoir told the newspaper then. "The stories I've gained from my deployment aren't the kind of stories you share."

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Thank you for clarifying that for me. ;)

[mylife]

Oh I can see the incident in MA.
I dont think the guy in MA was malicious, though I dont think he made a good choice.

One thing that suprises me is that he shot when he really wasnt in danger,tho that may be debatable since it was dark and the crowd may have been quite hostile and he couldnt reasonably know if the partiers were armed with more than bottles and bullshit.

I dont know what threats if any they made.

I do know this, If you pull a gun you had best be prepared to use it, and if you use it you best use it effectivly.

[edweena]

Article:
"To protect himself, his wife and children, Cotnoir fired a warning shot into what he thought was a safe area but the bullet ricocheted off cement and fragments hit two people, Kelley said."

It's always seemed to me (although I have little experience with guns) that one of the main mistakes made in scenes of gunfights in movies and on TV is that they ignore the ricochet phenomenon. They show people shooting automatic weapons at each other in a parking garage, and not only does the hero dodge every bullet, innocent bystanders never get hit with a ricochet. I'd think the last person to forget about the reality of shooting a gun would be a Marine.

I can't really understand this being accidental unless he really did lose his reason temporarily. On the other hand, if he really flashed back to battle, I'd expect a lot of those club goers to be dead now. It's a puzzling story.

[mabelkitty]

he feared for the safety of his family after someone threw an empty juice bottle through his bedroom window.

Innocent.

Next?

[mabelkitty]

Know anybody who has/had PTSD?
Then you can STFU.
Have a good day.

[King Prout]

history trivia, fyi:

"bullet" actually derives from the roman name for a sling's shot.

Balearic slingers were used to great effect by some Roman commanders. They cast 4-8oz lead or iron "bullets" quite accurately to a range of over 100 yards and lethally to a range of 400 yards.

IIRC, the round shot of smaller ballistae were also called bullets.

[Drew68]

Know anybody who has/had PTSD?

Yes I have.

Who the f--- are you?

[Drew68]

Thanks for that update, must have missed that.

Many details are being left out of this story because they don't back up the "Marine killer returns from Bush's illegal war for oil and opens fire on innocent, wholesome revelers" angle that the media is shooting for.

[Former Military Chick]

Thank you for such a thought provoking comment.

I happen to agree if you are going to use a weapon than you use it for the intent it was designed.

It seems, that with the party going on, it was just that. Would I appreciate a bottle breaking my window, well, it were quiet, out of the blue, I would call the police and plan to protect my family.

I am not quite buying what they are saying. If he felt his family was in danger, than suck it up, say that you may have chose a wrong method of handling it, that you would plead to something like reckless, hopefully get counseling and maybe after his probation his slate were cleared.

I just think he was lucky, he used poor judgement, perhaps Iraq hit is mental state, but if he was having such issues than he should have the weapons removed until he feels more like himself.

I have no easy answers, I demand the right to have a gun, as Charlton said, you aint getting it our of my dead hands, or to that effect. But, if I am going to use it, it would not be to warn it would be to defend and suffer what comes as a result of my actions.

[Former Military Chick]

Leaving it out or not, I am sure the case is still developing at this hour. But, this is not about Bush's war, it is about his attorney going down the road of blaming his service in Iraq.

I will reserve judgement of his guilt and if the prosecutor's charged correctly. Who knows, maybe it is a bunch of babble and when he is interviewed by the other side it is a scam. I do not wish that, but, there are concerns. A said way to return home after such an amazing military career.

BTW, when one goes up for the Marine of Year, Soldier of Year, they do an extensive back ground check, talking to his superiors, fellow Marines. It plays a roll. If he were of kilter they would have found that out while in Iraq.

Just my personal observation.

[Drew68]

it is about his attorney going down the road of blaming his service in Iraq.

I agree. His attorney probably feels this is the best strategy to keep his client out of prison.

[Americanexpat]

I wasn't condoning what this Marine did. It was stupid. I was just making the same point you did, they will stack the charges and get him on one or more of them.

[mylife]

I think you have the Idea FMC

I have no real answers as to how we balance service in a war zone against civil responsibility.

I pray the courts can work it out without taking away the Marines faith in the country and the familys finances.

I really dont think he intented harm but You really have to be prepared for you actions whether in a war zone or at home.
Marines are some of the finest thinkers of consequence I can think of. Something in this story is just plain off

[Former Military Chick]

You see, I think many take umbrage with this case, because of the charges leveled against him.

Had they gone for manslaughter or reckless endangerment perhaps the comments would be stronger for his use of the shot gun. But the over charging seems to have angered many, losing site of the event at hand.

It was a gathering, they knew there was a gathering. Does anyone know if the bottle was thrown due to the way the husband, father, Marine had spoken with them, creating a hostile situation. I do not know why the bottle was thrown. Don't know if it will matter but it is curious.

The cops were called did not respond, if that is true, there is a problem with them as well. I do not know, but, would suspect he is a Marksman from his Marine training, at least I hope he was, it is important to shoot your target in the spot expected.

A warning shot, to a bunch of rowdy folks, again, bad judgement. Happy, thrilled those injured indeed can walk/breath or another day. What if it had hit?

I seem like I am in the minority. But I do have serious concerns.

Thanks for the excellent comment.

[Former Military Chick]

I just replied to another commenter, and one thing did occur to me. Why did this gathering, obviously having a good time, choose to throw that bottle at the him, no other's.

Maybe there were words. The cops would not show up quick enough. I do not know if there is a legal construct in the legal arena, is there such thing as an allowed warning shot. That you intended to only get their attention and you can use your weapon in that fashion. I have many questions and I will watch this case develop.

Perhaps I will start a ping list on this case, if so would you like to for me to share my updates with you?

Finally the Marines are the best of the best, but I am torn, Dad went to West Point then chose the Air Force as did I, and I am married to a wonderful US Army patriot who also served in Iraq.

So, when I comment, it comes from that background.

[Former Military Chick]

Sometimes I can miss things. I think it is sleazy to over charge because it is somehow more PC to down grade than upgrade. Not sure why, sometimes new evidence come's down the pike and the accused, how ever it might be should be charged accordingly.

Thanks for the comment.