Twentieth Century Fox to release Blu-Ray movies

Macworld ^ | 7/29/2005 | Peter Cohen

[monkapotamus]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/zd/20050809/tc_zd/157706

Blu-Ray DRM Plans Released

Mark Hachman - ExtremeTech Tue Aug 9, 8:27 AM ET

The Blu-ray Disc Association said Tuesday that it has settled upon the AACS rights-management system to secure its discs, together with an additional watermarking and DRM update scheme.

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Both the competing Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats will use the Advanced Access Content System, which was specifically designed for next-generation optical discs. However, the Blu-Ray group will also secure its discs with ROM Mark, a watermarking scheme identifying authentic Blu-Ray discs, as well as "BD+", which will serve to dynamically update the rights-management schemes in case workarounds or other cracks are discovered and exploited.

The Blu-Ray Disc Association is comprised of 143 members, including Apple, Dell, Hewlett Packard, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Mitsubishi, Panasonic Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sony, TDK, Twentieth Century Fox, and Walt Disney Pictures and Television. Blu-Ray officials weren't available for comment at press time.

"The level of unauthorized copying and industrial piracy associated with DVD not only jeopardizes studios and other content creators, but also results in increased costs and limited flexibility for consumers," said Maureen Weber, general manager, of Hewlett Packard's Optical Storage Solutions, in a statement. "It is good news for everyone that the BDA has adopted a series of measures that gets it right for the next disc format."

While the ROM Mark scheme doesn't appear to have quite the scope that the Video Content Protection Scheme scheme that Hewlett-Packard and Philips proposed at the 2005 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, it does embed "a unique and undetectable identifier in pre-recorded BD-ROM media such as movies, music and games," according to a statement released by the Blu-Ray association on Tuesday morning.

The embedded code would prevent BD discs from being played on unlicensed players, preventing unauthorized copying of Blu-Ray media. Unauthorized disc copying costs the industry $3 billion a year in lost revenue, according to the organization.

Furthermore, the BD+ mechanism would appear to serve as a content update model for player firmware, similar to the manner in which drivers, BIOS software, or other code could be patched. How the code would be patched isn't exactly clear, although some have speculated that it could involve a "tree and leaf" model, where rights-management keys for entire manufacturers, regions, or subsets of each could be revoked while a pirate organization was tracked down.

[clintonh8r]

Aren't there some 1080 LCD screens?

[Lauretij2]

Don't underestimate the hackers. They've broken everything more or less that's big. The only ones that are really hard to keep cracked are satellite systems that the codes change on.

A disc, a player, a TV. That can be cracked eventually.

[Lauretij2]

There are some LCD 1080's out there, but they are $2k more than DLP's and are smaller.

[Ramius]

I thought so... My Toshiba LCD is supposedly 'true' 1080p. But it's impossible to believe anybody anymore.

All I know, with regard to standards, is to watch SONY. Wait and see which standard SONY picks, and then go with the other one. They've managed to masterfully blow it every single time, and there's no reason to think they'll stop now. :-)

[clintonh8r]

I have limited space for it, so I'm looking at no larger than 42 inches.

[Lauretij2]

Remember that these are 16:9, and 42 inches of 16:9 don't correlate to the 4:3 standard TV's.

I'm looking for something 1080p in the 50 inch range for $2k or something next year. DLP's should be close to that in 6-9 months at this rate.

Nothing wrong with the 1080p LCD's though, but looking them up on froogle.. They seem to go for $5-6k versus the $3-4k for DLP.

[TAquinas]

What's a Blu-Rays?

[Lauretij2]

HDTV format.. Next-gen movie watchin' stuff.

[clintonh8r]

I found a web site that automatically converts 16:9 and 4:3. I'll look at the DLPs this weekend. A friend has, I think, a 60" Samsung DLP that looks spectacular.

[Lauretij2]

I got a friend that bought a 720p DLP 56" new Samsung, and loves it. He got a really good deal on it, for $2500.

I haven't seen it yet, but he goes on and on about it. 1080p though baby :)

It'll be worth it to wait. The programming isn't there yet, and Directv is getting ready for a massive shift to a totally new system for their HD. Give it 6 months or so, I'd say now.

[clintonh8r]

That's the other thing I've been struggling with...program source. I have Dish now, and have been waiting to see what's coming from them and DirecTv.

I'll take your advice and wait a few months before buying hardware. Maybe by then the program source will be resolved too.

Thanks!

[TAquinas]

Thanks.

Technology is marching on while I still use a twenty-year-old TV. :) It's about time to buy me a new one with a remote control. Oh yeah!!

[Republican Wildcat]

Kind of a slightly different subject - is the PS3 backwards compatible with the PS2 and PS1 games?

[Republican Wildcat]

Have you tried a VCR yet? :-)

[Publius6961]

The Hollywood lawyers want to make sure it's a "secure" display that won't let you do anything but watch.

Will you have to pay money every time you watch the disc? Stay tuned.

What's that definition of insanity again?
I've seen this over and over in so many different circumstances. The young turks who are going to make an stupid idea that failed the first five times work this time.
DVDx redux. Or whatever the stupid name was.

Secure display huh? Sure. Not in my lifetime.
There are people with more money than sense; always have been. But not nearly enough to support exploitive technology.

Good luck to them.

[Publius6961]

You sound like a used car salesman.
Not buying it.

By the way, welcome to Free Republic.

[montag813]

No matter what they come up with, we will still be able to download it online.

[supercat]

not likely, its fairly strong encryption:

CRTs are analog devices. At some point the signal has to exist in analog form for a CRT to display it. Even if the control electronics are potted and immune to attack, one can solder wires to the gates of the electron guns and capture the signals that way. And even if that didn't work, the content one is dealing with is being displayed optically and could thus be recorded optically.

It might be difficult for someone to use such techniques to back up their own material or copy it for use on their own unapproved playback devices, but it would be no problem at all for organized pirates to duplicate whatever they wanted.

And if I were on a jury judging someone who gave a pirate $10 to provide him with a disk that would play on his equipment instead of giving $15 to a movie company for a disk that wouldn't, I don't think I'd convict.

[LibLieSlayer]

You will not be so enthused about either format when you get a chance to study just how severely crippled specs for both formats have become.

No full resolution HD output on Component (analog) ports, and HDMI ports will be the only full resolution output available. Watermarks on discs to determine if a disc is a legitimate disc or not. If not legitimate, code within the firmware of HD DVD or BD players (can and most likely will) block the playback of content on the player.

If a certain brand deck is found to have a hack available to allow analog HD output, or recording backups of purchased discs (fair use), the entire line of that model can be shutdown with code included on every legitimate disc sold from that time forward. The ability to shutdown a unique player exists also.

Internet connectivity will be an optional DRM path for interactive content, or for updating firmware in the player to close a "hole" and make it immune from a "hack".

If a player receives an ECM (electronic counter measure), it will be possible to revive it by using the Internet connect to update or patch the firmware in the player to make it immune to the discovered hack or illegitimate software.


In the worst case, it could require you to pay a fee for every time you view a disc. Circuit City tried this with Divxx, and it failed miserably.

Even home recorded discs would have this "legitimate" watermark, and options exist that could limit where and on what equipment one could playback home recorded content.

Couple this with HD DVD announcing that they would be "scaling back" on their promised end of 2005 rollout, and the main supplier of HD DVD blanks signing on with Blu Ray to produce their discs (even purchasing equipment to press BD), it is now uncertain when either format will be introduced. This company that makes the discs said they did not expect "both" formats to make it to market. Warner has delayed any 2005 releases of content on HD DVD.

Toshiba has announced their first generation player will output 720p and 1080i via HDMI only, and introductory price for a playback-only deck is $1000.00. Movies are estimated to start at $40.00 each.

Who knows? Meanwhile I am enjoying all three of my DVHS HD decks!

You can read all you ever wanted to know about this subject at:
www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

You can find the threads in the HD Recording and HD Software sections. People actually directly working on all facets of these two formats post there. AVS is Audio Video Sciences Forum.

LLS