Russian Mini-Submarine Stuck on Sea Floor

MYWAY ^ | 5 AUG 2005 | YEVGENY KULKOV

[Fawn]

Not again.

Remember that line in the movie with the Russians and Gene Hackman I believe? One of the Russian subs got 'lost'? Great movie...what was the name of it again?

[bill1952]

WRONG.

If is sitting on a bottom that is not rocky, then that part of the sub is NOT subject to sea pressure, and it will be pressed down by sea pressure.

It is NOT being acted on by sea pressure from all sides, and this is very well known in UT.
Ever try to lift something off the sea floor at depth?

[jb6]

They were on war games and launched from a mother ship.

[Fawn]

So---why can't they bring up this fishing net? Or do they just leave it there permanently to snag marine life and kill things--including people now.

[Kewz1]

It was just reported on Fox News that both the US and Japan are sending help.

Please Lord let it arrive in time.

[Graymatter]

I realize that. I mentioned PF for perspective. The depth is not utterly abyssal.

[bill1952]

Name one time that has ever worked.

[11th_VA]

Not this crap again. How difficult would it be to put an emergency air intake valve on every sub in the world with a universal matching flange.

[orionblamblam]

> If is sitting on a bottom that is not rocky, then that part of the sub is NOT subject to sea pressure

Correct. If it is sitting in, say, mud... then it's being acted on also by the "mud" pressure. Constant pressure all-round. While a circular cross-section sub may survive uniform pressure, it woudl only take relatively slight asymmetrical pressure to cause the hull to collapse.

> Ever try to lift something off the sea floor at depth?

Nope. But I can imagine that deep-sea mud can be as sticky as any other mud, and serve as glue. But the pressure difference issue is nonexistant.

[Mr. K]

the WATER pressure is equal all around even if it is on the bottom.

[Mr. K]

good news and I hope they help whether or not they are asked

[EQAndyBuzz]

"Name one time that has ever worked"

Never. But it's the Russians. They will figure out some way to finish off these 7 people so they can keep what really happened a secret.

[Issaquahking]

Lots of wild guessing on this thread about sub rescue, maybe you want to kill some of the rumors inthe thread or get in on discusion?

I used to be on a sub-tender in the Navy 78-82, glad the Russians are at least asking for help. Makes me wonder if it's for altrustic...or more likely, to investigate our resque eqipment to date, on a body recovery.

Will check thread this evening,

[green iguana]

No, sorry - you're the one who's wrong. Picture a sub an inch from the ocean floor - equal water pressure all around it. It moves closer - still equal pressure. A millimeter away - still equal pressure. If what you say is true, then the INSTANT the sub touches the floor the pressure from the bottom vanishes, and the sub would be squashed like a bug.

With a 600 meter column of water pressing into the ocean floor, why doesn't the floor give way and get pressed down? Because the floor is pushing back with equal pressure. This is Newton's Third Law of Motion: for every action (the water pressing down) there is an equal and opposite reaction (the sea floor pushing up.)

You are correct that if the floor is muddy there, the sub is most likely lost. But that's because the mud is a fluid, and the sub would sink into it. Which is why it's so difficult to lift something off a lake or seabed at depth. It's the suction action of the muck, not the weight of the object. If you still don't believe me, here's a little experiment for you. Next time you're out diving, take a mechanical scale with you. Go down to where the floor is at 100' or so and place the scale on the floor. Take an extra 10 lb weight down with you and place it on the scale. It'll still weigh 10 lbs. I will bet anything on that that you would care to.

[FreePaul]

...untold pressure...

Pretty much "told" in post No. 31.

[bill1952]

If it has settled IN the bottom, there is no water pressure.

As an earlier posted noted there would be a hydraulic pressure from, say, mud, but the problem is that that increases the suction problem.

You can all disagree as much as you want in theory, but numerous vessels have been torn in half by that hydraulic suction caused by lifting them from much more shallow depths.

In fact, positioning ships and rigging cables is pretty standard procedure down to about 50 meters. - After that it becomes very, very difficult, and the focus turns to removal of the crew rather than salvage of the vessel.

As far as asymmetry is concerned in actual hull collapse, 625 is nowhere near crush depth for any DSRV that I am aware of.

[bill1952]

Makes me wonder if it's for altrustic...or more likely, to investigate our resque eqipment to date, on a body recovery.

I think you,ve nailed it. - I have no idea how anyone could get the whole deal raised from 625 in one day, if ever.

I have no idea if we can mate anything to their hatch design. - Back tomorrow.

[Tallguy]

Can hard-hat/suit divers get down that far?

I think we're looking at "Newt Suit" diving at those depths. That's a hard-shell, one-atmosphere diving rig. But whatever they do it will be very risky. Whatever has snagged that sub can also entangle any would-be rescuer. This is going to make the recent spacewalk look like a Sunday picnic.

[nairBResal]

Crimson Tide

[Righty_McRight]

Crimson Tide?