Methodist Bishop Kammerer Invents Church Law, Cans Pastor, Demands Secrecy

United Methodist News Service ^ | 26 July 2005 | UMNS, Linda Green

[Free Baptist]

WHY do you allow open adulterers into membership? Are you of the same denomination?

[Free Baptist]

Is this a member of the United Methodist Church (denomination) who is labeling the Methodist Church as becoming secular and irrelevant? By observation we would agree. We are here, though, wondering if many of the members of churches within the denomination are of the same opinion.

[Free Baptist]

Perhaps, if you are a member of a church affiliated with the U.M denomination, you could work within that structure by organizing "laymen" (I really don't like the term "laymen"). And I would recommend that you choose as leaders among you those "laymen" who are recognized as avid Bible students, and able to readily discuss the issues, with your "clergy" (I don't like that word either) in the denominational leadership, from the Scripture. Do the local churches within the UM denomination send "lay" representatives to the conferences? Do these "lay" representatives have any particular qualifications that would place them more-or-less on par with the "clergymen" there (I mean for church leadership purposes)?

[Free Baptist]

There are specific restrictions on partaking at the Lord's table and eating with the brethren.

1Co 5:11 -- But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Homosexual behavior would easily fall under the category of fornication.

[Free Baptist]

Yes, God bless him for taking a firm position. I would like to meet him or communicate with him. Does anyone know the best way to do that?

[Free Baptist]

This is a college/seminary trained Methodist pastor, right? He has been ordained, we only assume, by a board or presbytery of Methodist ministers. He has done nothing to be "de-frocked" relative to his ordination. I would recommend that Pastor Johnson take that background and organize an independent Methodist church (that is, an independent local congregation) in which that congregation itself may set the standards for church discipline according to the dictates of its own Bible-guided and Spirit-led conscience.

[ZULU]

The difference between ordinary sinners - in most cases - is they don't proselytize and attempt to secure acknowledgement and approval of their lifestyle.

Homosexuality is an especially grave and insidious offense. Look at what it caused in the Catholic Church.

[Free Baptist]

Oh, I forget to add, if Pastor Johnson wants to remain within a Methodist denominational structure, aren't there at least two more? Isn't there the Free Methodist option? Isn't there the Wesleyan Methodist option? It seems that Pastor Johnson is taking a more "conservative" course, and I believe that the Free and Wesleyan are both much more conservative, while retaining basic Methodist tenets. And I am assuming that the Free and Wesleyan allow a greater degree of autonomy to the local congregations.

[starfish923]

The difference between ordinary sinners - in most cases - is they don't proselytize and attempt to secure acknowledgement and approval of their lifestyle.
Homosexuality is an especially grave and insidious offense. Look at what it caused in the Catholic Church.

1. When homosexuals go to Mass, they don't proselytize or attempt to secure acknowledgement and approval of their lifestyle. I don't see priests watching their, er, flock, while they are saying Mass, checking if any men are holding hands or displaying affection during Mass.
If those men (or women) are seen on T.V. doing so that doesn't mean that they may automatically be denied communion.

2. Pederast priests, their CRIMES in their parishes and the American Church's handling of those priess and their CRIMES caused the American Catholic Church their problems, not homosexuality perse.

The Catholic Church does about 95% of all the charitable outreach for homosexuals with HIS/AIDS. It ain't the homosexuality or homosexuals that are the "problem" for the Church. The Church made its own problems on that one. THEY allowed the pederasts to become priests and DIDN'T deal with them and their CRIMES when and how they should have.

[ZULU]

The pedophile in the Catholic Church were all homosexuals.

Homosexuals openly flaunt their perversion and seek to convince others of the legitimacy of their acts.

They seek to get openly homosexual perverts appointed as clergymen, are pushing for state recognition of their unnatural relationships, stage parades, get people who condemn their activities fired, push for books and classes in schools which condone their activities.

Toleration of openly practicing homosexuals has not worked.
We don't tolerate openly adulterous relationships and don't tolerate other perversions practiced openly.

Homosexuality is a grave sin, the people who practise it are wrong, and society should stop tolerating these people and equating their perversions in a legal sense, with ethnicity, religion, race or gender.

They are thoroughly despicable.

[boomop1]

I think that they have a problem in defining the churches Doctrinal Standards it is not uniform throughout the various churches. They choose to avoid the tough questions. I am a LCMS member and we have no problem with the, what we believe charter, we will never get caught up in secularism.

[starfish923]

The pedophile in the Catholic Church were all homosexuals.
Yes, that is true, but not all homosexuals are pedophiles. Nor are they all pederasts.
These sick priests were NOT pedophiles. They were PEDERASTS. There IS a difference.

Homosexuals openly flaunt their perversion and seek to convince others of the legitimacy of their acts.
They seek to get openly homosexual perverts appointed as clergymen, are pushing for state recognition of their unnatural relationships, stage parades, get people who condemn their activities fired, push for books and classes in schools which condone their activities.
This is all true.
Trying to normalize homosexuality won't make it normal.

Toleration of openly practicing homosexuals has not worked.
We don't tolerate openly adulterous relationships and don't tolerate other perversions practiced openly.
Homosexuality is a grave sin, the people who practise it are wrong, and society should stop tolerating these people and equating their perversions in a legal sense, with ethnicity, religion, race or gender.
They are thoroughly despicable.
I generally agree with you though I don't blanket think that all homosexuals are despicable. I think their homosexuality is abnormal and their activists' agenda of trying to normalize it IS despicable.
I also believe that our society's going along with them is despicable.

[The_Repugnant_Conservative]

Fornicators could also describe a bunch of young Marines on R and R. (Or I & I as it was called in Nam, IIRC)

But the real question is. IS it following all laws equally. Or is it a human interpretation that these laws count while those laws don't really matter.