Posted on 07/31/2005 7:02:02 AM PDT by kellynla
Amen. The German Wehrmacht of the 1930's did away with a lot of the hazing and chicken sh*t of the Kaiser's army, replacing severe punishments for relatively minor infractions with the military equivalent of writing "I will not talk in class" on the blackboard fifty times. As a consequence, the Wehrmacht entered WWII a far more dedicated, professional and effective force than the Kaiser's levies. What people forget about the Marines is that the entire Corps is an elite force, so they employ (and recruits expect) a much more demanding regimen than is inflicted upon most Navy, Army or Air Force personnel. Nevertheless, if you watch the "History Channel", "Discovery Channel" or PBS programs on Marine, Ranger or SEAL training, you'll find that even amongst the elites there are different approaches to training and discipline. The only thing that matters is the result.
"When I enlisted (61). . . ."
That far back, did you guys have to REALLY fight
dinosaurs?
(Easy, easy, friend. I'm the same age.)
(I have not served. My tagline honors my son and my cousin.)
Why is verbal and physical abuse necessary to be trained properly?
And thanks for yours too. I've know some other who worked in that neck of the woods (N. Laos). For about a month (Nov 67), when I was a short-timer, my unit was assigned in support of FOB2 out of Kontum. We were taking all kinds of people in and out of the Ho Chi Minh trail area in the very south of Laos. Haunting land and it was scary.
You remind me of the Dad who's son enlisted in the Marines out of a school in the NE. Frank Schaffer and Jr. are their names. They've written a couple of books together.
My son kind of followed in my footsteps only he's a real soldier. I always felt I was just going through the motions. If it wouldn't have been for flying choppers I probably wouldn't have gone back in. My son enlisted in 92 and was deployed in all the Clinton wag-the-dog areas and he is now a 1LT Ranger in the Infantry and just came back from A-Stan a few months ago.
Hang in there, Dad.
I got mixed up on my posts but I was reminded of Schaffer. The dad is a scolar and is truly wrapped up in the Marines now that his son is there.
I smell liberal anti-military presence in this. Like they want to humiliate the instructors.
I wanted to say "hang in there, Dad, I know what you're going through." See my 45. I got mixed up on my replies. Early stages of CRS, I guess.
Did you enlist and what did you think of the draftees, in general, you served with during that period?
Combat, who the hell said anything about combat? Thisa training is perfect for the Wal-Mart Employees of the future. Can't we all just get along hee?
"but current soldiers in Iraq are some of the finest examples of military personnel in the history of this country."
I don't believe I said they weren't???
FReeepers need to take a course in remedial reading and stop misquoting me...it's gotten to be a daily habit around here!
However making boot camp more like summer camp will not give the "boots" the training they need especially if it doesn't weed out those who might not hold up under combat and/or capture.
Semper Fi,
Kelly
Volunteering for the Draft was the way to go. I'm saving your post for future reference. I have good memories of the draftees I went through basic training with and served with in Munich. I even served with some draftees in Germany who had been extended by Kennedy for six months due to the Berlin Crisis. They weren't happy but they did their job.
In those formative years for me (18-21) the draftees were the guys I looked up to and they are the ones who made the Army run just as much as the RAs did.
The five cycles of trainees I had that were without draftees in late 73 and 74 told me that we had lost something we probably would never get back - not just in the Army, but the country. LBJ and Vietnam gave the Draft a bad reputation.
So much for "more sweat in training, less blood in combat."
How many more Jessica Lynch's will have to happen before they realize playing pussy foot doesn't prepare one for combat?
Was boot camp tough back in hte 60s? Hell yes. But, Viet Nam was even tougher and being put in the mindset they put us in helped many of us to make it back home.
The way they are going, soon they will give them an oral exam, watch them play a video game and send them off to war, ill-prepared to survive.
The country and looney left better wake up. This isn't a video game, it's a real life struggle to stop world domination by radical Islamists.
He's taken a badly garbled "news" story from the New York Times (*), and garbled it still further. What's left is a bad mix of nonsense and lies.
If any reporters want to spend a week or two with a basic training company, it wouldn't be hard to set that up. (I'd gladly help.) But if they're content to be know-nothing hacks, then that's how they'll be seen.
* As Recruiting Suffers, Military Reins In Abuses at Boot Camp
"Why is verbal and physical abuse necessary to be trained properly?"
you have to separate the wheat from the weeds
and you have to find out who will break under pressure
better boot camp than in combat or a POW camp(another reason for not having women in combat units(notice all the extra concern by the public and the media when a woman soldier was captured in Iraq).
Semper Fi,
Kelly
I don't know if it is, but I do know that any man who'll cry if you yell at him will usually either shit himself or pass out if you shoot at him.
"I don't know if it is, but I do know that any man who'll cry if you yell at him will usually either shit himself or pass out if you shoot at him."
Thank you.
Better to find out in boot camp then in the battle field where he will endanger not only himself but more importantly every one in his unit!
Semper Fi,
Kelly
Bad example. The Wehrmacht got their asses beat by everyone except the French.
Thus, the wussification of what used to be one of the best armies in the FREE world!!
It's a good thing we still have Marines!!
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