Posted on 07/23/2005 6:13:24 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak
It doesn't necessarily affect the salah -- they could still pray to Mecca anyway. As for the Hajj, it is one of the five pillars as of now, but that doesn't mean the religion would collapse if they couldn't go to Mecca. Just means 4 pillars instead of 5, or maybe they just modify it. Heck, despite the requirement of the Hajj, a great many moslems never make it there due to lack of funds. And they're still moslems.
Yet again you betray your total ignorance of Islam. You cannot have "4 pillars instead of 5, or maybe they just modify it."
You should know, if you know anything about Islam, that 5 pillars are the FINAL word of Allah to Muhammed. One of the pillars is to convert to Islam by affirming "There is no god but allah, and muhammed is his LAST prophet." The religion given to Muhammed directly from allah is FINISHED, COMPLETE, PERFECT, and CANNOT BE MODIFIED.
No other "prophet" can come along to say, "Don't worry, we are dropping 2 of the 5 pillars, allah told me so."
Muhammed made it crystal clear: I am the FINAL prophet. Anybody after me CANNOT SPEAK FOR ALLAH. That point is critical.
No Mecca, no Grand Mosque, no Kaaba, no black stone = no 5 pillars of Islam = no Islam.
You don't think that Dingell has any understanding of Islam? I
bet he has a real good understanding and I also bet that he benfits financially from that understanding. Only a wild guess, but ever since I stumbled across the information on Hagel being tied to Islamic donors, I expect that every politician who speaks out on the side of the terrorists is similarly invested.
Tancredo has no understanding of the nature of maintaining credibility.
Then riddle me this, Batman:
The Stone is actually broken into several pieces, damage which occurred when the stone was stolen in 930 C.E. Ismaili (Qarmatian) warriors sacked Mecca and carried the Black Stone away. It was returned twenty-two years later. In the process, the Black Stone was cracked. It is now held together by a silver band, which is fastened by silver nails to the Stone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
So here is this site that you claim all moslems believe is completely inviolate and indestructible, that contains the likewise inviolate and indestructible Black Stone. Yet, 300 years after the death of Mohammed, the city is sacked, the Stone is stolen, broken, and absented from Mecca for 20 year. Why did the religion not die then?
I suppose one answer is that the Stone may not be as central as you claim, at least not to all moslems:
Some Muslims would regard the Stone as "just a stone". When Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Caliph, came to kiss the stone, he said, in front of all assembled: "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Messenger kissing you, I would not have kissed you." Other Muslims believe that this stone fell from the sky during the time of Adam, and that it has the power to cleanse worshippers of their sins by absorbing them into itself. They say that the Black Stone was once a pure and dazzling white; it has turned black because of the sins it has absorbed over the years. Still others will say only that the stone can erase the believer's minor sins. On the Day of Judgement, the Stone will testify before God (Allah) in favor of those who kissed it.
And were you aware that:
Some traditional Muslims in defiance of their religion, consider the stone holy and put emphasis on touching it and kissing it....
Same point as above -- the stone is a relic, but it is not supposed to be holy in itself. And then there's this:
The actual structure of the Kaaba has been demolished and rebuilt several times in the course of its history.
http://www.submission.org/hajj/kaaba.html
Huh? It's been demolished and rebuilt, and yet the religion continued anyway. How did that happen?
No Mecca, no Grand Mosque, no Kaaba, no black stone = no 5 pillars of Islam = no Islam.
Again, that's you applying western reductionist logic to another religion to which it may not apply. And we've already seen historically that neither a sacked Mecca, a demolished Kaaba, nor a stolen and broken Black Stone ended islam.
You appear to have a much more rigid interpretation of islam than to the moslems themselves.
Time will tell. I'll be offline for a week, you have fun too.
Tell me about it, I grew up there...
Dingelleberry has been there longer than I have been alive... I used to hock lugies on the door everytime I rode my bicycle or walked by there on the way to high school... scum...
And this growing problem is not limited to just Muslims. Not at all.
Certain quisling freepers point out that national politicians have to speak Spanish to Hispanic voters to win their trust, otherwise they can't win elections -- as if this were a sound argument for leaving the border open and catering to illegals. We already know there are whole congressional districts like this.
Somehow, we need to put a stop to this.
Not. Islam is like any other false religion. There is no absolute truth it. You throw the rock away, you still have people's relative, subjective opinions about what Islam means to them. The religion is based on themselves, not their stupid rock.
You throw the rock away, the terrorist is still the terrorist and will find reasons to terrorize more because of it. You throw the rock away, the peace-loving person who calls himself a Muslim, will still be a peace-loving person who is now crying because his pet rock is gone.
You fight force with force and ignorance with knowledge. Peace for peace and war for war. Otherwise you make your knowledge illegitimate and violence against you legitimate, when you use violence against nonviolent people. The reason why nonviolent people like America is because we don't kill people for being wrong.
NEVER MIND that you can walk the streets in Kabul or Riyadh or Kirkuk or Doha or Kuwait City or Abu Dahbi (All Muslim the last time I checked) without having to worry.From the most recent book by that notorious left-wing liberal P. J. O'Rourke:
Now, some would say, Kuwait is an American fief. The Kuwaitis are free of resentment about that. Being an American in Kuwait City was like being a minor celebrity come back home to live. Walking through the souks, I was greeted with shy smiles and hellos from fellow shoppers. Merchants invited me to have coffee after I'd bought something. In the luggage souk two shopkeepers left their stores and showed me around until I bought what I wanted from a rival. As I was going into the Salhiya Mall, a security guard saw me start to empty the many pockets of my safari jacket. He got up, helped me out of the coat, carried it around the detector stanchions unsearched, and helped me put it back on.
-Eric
We get that treatment from some of the Iraqis at Baghdad Airport. Very deferential. I even see some of their faces light up at us. The Immigration and Customs officials are always very friendly and chatty.
We can't walk through the souks 'round here yet. ;-)
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