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NYers to NYPD: 'I Do Not Consent to Being Searched'
The Village Voice ^ | July 21st, 200 | by Chisun Lee

Posted on 07/22/2005 11:06:07 AM PDT by BigFinn

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To: Stu Cohen

This shirt is being sold in a far left publication that routinely portrays Bush as a vampire, as a Nazi, etc.
The maker of the shirt is an activist for illegal immigrants.
People who will be buying and wearing this shirt are being defiant of the searches. They are the same people who make New York and America less safe by being pro-illegal, anti-gun, anti-profiling.


521 posted on 07/22/2005 2:49:20 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: Stu Cohen

"Stay .... inside .... and ... you ... will .... be .... safer .... than .... if .... you .... go .... outside."

Stay inside? What's the matter with you?

If we followed that tip of yours, the world will come to a crawl, nay, civilization itself would halt. How how does this help catching the bad guys?


522 posted on 07/22/2005 2:52:21 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences: Tom Tancredo for President 2008/2012.)
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To: oceanview
I could easily make the case that the border cannot be sealed adequately to stop a small team of determined and well funded terrorists from crossing

That would actually be an accurate statement. The reason to seal the border is stop the millions of immigrants who come here illegally and severely burden our social services.

Making it harder for potential terrorists would just be a potential benefit.

Note that if a terrorist was stopped by the border patrol and then blew themselves up, it wouldn't have the same effect as a terrorist detonating themselves in a crowded subway security line.

That point is very important as a terrorist that is stopped from entering a subway car can kill just as many people and cause just as much harm if he detonates while in the security line. This is truly a "feel good" measure that the left usually enjoys - I am surprised that conservatives are being fooled by it.

523 posted on 07/22/2005 2:53:47 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: Freebird Forever

I'm not going to get into a flame war with you.

I grasped you just fine, my FRiend. You were twisting my words and I was trying to clarify so we could have a conversation.

I won't bother.


524 posted on 07/22/2005 2:55:39 PM PDT by Not A Snowbird (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: Stu Cohen
I actually like the stop-n-search policy from a strictly Machievillian perspective. The conceit of every generation is that they believe their experiences are unique. Since there is limited institutional memory, people tend to forget what type of people created the US; but the genes don't.

At some point, the f-you attitude will boil over and the real culprits will be targeted. However, this may take another generation or so - we should probably give the phony WOT a chance. That way, there won't be much disagreement when more dramatic war measures are implemented in the correct overseas targets.

525 posted on 07/22/2005 2:56:31 PM PDT by lemura
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To: 68 grunt

... eastern front, silly boy ...


526 posted on 07/22/2005 2:57:38 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: BigFinn

I still like the 4th amendment, backed up by the 2nd amendment.... Who cares about the cool-aid drinkers?


527 posted on 07/22/2005 2:58:20 PM PDT by MarshallDillon (Texas is a RINO-circus and Governor Perry is wearing leotards in center ring.)
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To: TAquinas
How how does this help catching the bad guys?

How does conducting random searches in the subway help catch any bad guys? The odds of searching the right guy are astronomical and even if you do pick out the right one, he will detonate himself where he stands and take a cop and whoever else is standing nearby. It will cause just as much damage and fear and the bad guy will not still not be caught as it was his plan to blow himself up in any event.

I'm not saying that we have to give up. What the people who value freedom in this thread are saying is that it is silly to give up very important constitutional freedoms for an effort that is useless.

528 posted on 07/22/2005 2:59:25 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta

I agree - we want the border sealed because of the illegal immigration problem.

but imagine if no one wanted to come here from Mexico - that we didn't have an immigration issue. and that border security was only about keeping out potential terrorists and criminals. should we not do it? should we eliminate all visas, passports, just make it wide open - since after all, the odds of catching someone is so low, why bother?

take a bunch of these "feel good" low odds measures all together, and I feel it makes a difference.


529 posted on 07/22/2005 3:03:15 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: JeffAtlanta

On some days, my bag is searched three or four times. Library, office buildings, museums, etc. One more time won't make a difference.


530 posted on 07/22/2005 3:05:35 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: XJarhead

well, all I can tell you is that the very police department we are speaking of - NYPD - conducted sweeping stop and frisk activites to get crime under control when Rudy took office. I see no evidence it was random - specific neighboorhoods were targeted, that alone constitutes a form of profiling. I didn't see any court rulings stopping it. what stopped it? the Diallo shooting.


531 posted on 07/22/2005 3:06:24 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: JeffAtlanta; oceanview

Oceanview: "I could easily make the case that the border cannot be sealed adequately to stop a small team of determined and well funded terrorists from crossing"

That's ridiculous. According to your "case," we should open the border gates to the immigrant alien since one or two terrorist might slip through the net if the borders were sealed. The fact is that closing the borders prevents the crossing of 99.99% of criminal aliens terrorists and foreign murderers. Keeping them open allows for 99.99% of the world's trash to come in at their pleasure.

JeffAtlanta: "That would actually be an accurate statement. The reason to seal the border is stop the millions of immigrants who come here illegally and severely burden our social services."

The Open Borders crackpots are either confused and naive, or they intentionally would love to see our country's sovereignty lost to hordes of colonizing Third World aliens.


532 posted on 07/22/2005 3:10:24 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences: Tom Tancredo for President 2008/2012.)
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To: BigFinn

You have the right to refuse being searched.
We have the right to refuse to let you ride our subways.


533 posted on 07/22/2005 3:12:11 PM PDT by Cincinna (BEWARE HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: lemura

Excellent!

I take a bow to you, Sir/Madam.


534 posted on 07/22/2005 3:12:16 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences: Tom Tancredo for President 2008/2012.)
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To: oceanview
and that border security was only about keeping out potential terrorists and criminals. should we not do it?

The difference is that securing the border does not infringe or erode any constitutional freedoms - random searches do.

The problem with this measure is that is both futile and infringes on constitutional freedoms. The futility and ineffectiveness of the plan wouldn't be that big of a deal if were more friendly to the constitution. And for what it's worth, the constitutional issues wouldn't be as big of deal if it were a very effective approach.

This approach however does nothing but erode freedoms and inconvenience law abiding citizens.

535 posted on 07/22/2005 3:13:12 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: BigFinn
Immigration leftists like Clinton and Bush have traded our right to live in liberty in a safe Western nation-state for the glorious diversity of an islam-infected "world-country".

Four years after 9-11, and Bush (or is it Clinton or Kerry - can't tell them apart on this issue) is still pouring foreign muslims into our homeland at the rate of 100,000 per year. Bush's eight years of "leadership" will add another million muslims to the USA through legal immigration and the US-born children of those immigrants.

Here's what he (and Congress) did to America in one year alone (2002)

Birth
Country
Legal USA Immigrants
2002
Muslim population percentage Estimated 2002 Muslim Legal Immigrants
Pakistan          9,415               97                9,133
Iran          7,230               99                7,158
India        50,228               14                7,032
Philippines        45,250               14                6,335
Nigeria          7,872               75                5,904
Ethiopia          6,635               65                4,313
Bangladesh          4,616               85                3,924
Egypt          3,348               94                3,147
Morocco          3,137               99                3,096
Turkey          3,029             100                3,023
Jordan          2,927               95                2,781
Albania          3,362               75                2,522
Russia        13,935               18                2,508
Somalia          2,444             100                2,444
Iraq          2,450               97                2,377
Lebanon          2,956               70                2,069
Syria          1,938               90                1,744
Indonesia          1,805               95                1,715
Sudan          1,883               85                1,601
Yemen          1,382               99                1,368
Ghana          4,410               30                1,323
Uzbekistan          1,445               88                1,272
Afghanistan          1,252             100                1,252
Guyana          6,809               15                1,021
Sierra Leone          1,492               65                   970
Kenya          3,209               30                   947
Algeria             759               99                   751
Niger             808               91                   735
Saudi Arabia             735             100                   735
Romania          3,655               20                   731
Azerbaijan             746               93                   697
Togo          1,187               55                   653
Kuwait             707               89                   629
Malaysia          1,200               52                   624
Serbia and Mont.          2,994               19                   569
Bulgaria          3,825               14                   536
Liberia          1,766               30                   530
Cameroon             927               55                   510
Senegal             522               95                   496
Eritrea             556               80                   445
Thailand          3,126               14                   438
Israel          2,741               14                   384
UAE             380               96                   365
Tanzania             554               65                   360
Tunisia             353               98                   346
Cote d'Ivoire             483               60                   290
Kyrgyzstan             356               76                   271
United Kingdom          9,527                3                   257
Macedonia             653               30                   196
Germany          5,064                3                   172
Canada        11,350                1                   168
France          2,375                7                   166
Uganda             455               36                   164
Libya             140             100                   140
Mauritania             131             100                   131
Guinea-Bissau             176               70                   123
Fiji          1,095               11                   120
Burma          1,193               10                   119
Tajikistan             137               85                   116
Sri Lanka          1,246                9                   112
Mali             124               90                   112
Singapore             582               17                    99
Nepal          2,095                4                    84
Georgia             735               11                    81
Oman              76             100                    76
Turkmenistan              84               87                    73
Qatar              72             100                    72
Argentina          3,129                2                    63
Japan          5,971                1                    60
Bahrain              59             100                    59
Zimbabwe             358               15                    54
Panama          1,164                4                    47
Suriname             180               25                    45
South Africa          2,210                2                    44
Zambia             280               15                    42
Cyprus             123               33                    41
Australia          1,836                2                    38
Brazil          6,331                1                    38
Hong Kong          3,574                1                    36
Sweden             963                4                    35
Burkina Faso              60               50                    30
Netherlands             981                3                    29
Guinea              29               95                    28
Cambodia          2,263                1                    23
Malawi              62               35                    22
Italy          1,644                1                    16
Djibouti              16               94                    15
Maldives              15             100                    15
Burundi              74               20                    15
Angola              59               25                    15
Croatia          1,153                1                    14
Brunei              20               63                    13
Benin              76               15                    11
Mauritius              57               20                    11
Mozambique              36               29                    10
Greece             651                2                    10
Madagascar              40               20                      8
Chad                8               85                      7
Mongolia             153                4                      6
Malta              37               14                      5
Norway             320                2                      5
Cen. African Rep.                6               55                      3
Comoros                3               86                      3
Swaziland              23               10                      2
Namibia              40                5                      2
Aruba              27                5                      1
Botswana              27                5                      1
United States              32                4                      1
Rwanda             109                1                      1
Bhutan              15                5                      1
Slovenia              64                1                      1
Reunion                3               20                      1
Lesotho                5               10                      1
TOTAL              95,577

536 posted on 07/22/2005 3:14:13 PM PDT by dagnabbit (Vincente Fox's opening line at the Mexico-USA summit meeting: "Bring out the Gimp!")
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To: JeffAtlanta

"How does conducting random searches in the subway help catch any bad guys?"

I'm not for random searches, rather for targeted searches and profiling would help tremendously.


537 posted on 07/22/2005 3:15:30 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences: Tom Tancredo for President 2008/2012.)
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To: RedRover

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

This guy who wrote the original article in question may have drawn his conclusions as to the inappropriateness of Bloomberg's action for reasons that you and I might not agree with. That does not automatically make his conclusion wrong. For my part, I recall being appalled but unsurprised by the new policy within moments of hearing about it earlier today.

I have only read about a third of the messages in this thread, but must heartily second the opinions expressed in message 484. I am astonished to see so many supposedly right-thinking people on this board happily relinquish their rights and freedoms with nary a concern for the consequences. Perhaps it is that many on this board avoid NYC at all costs anyway and regard it as past salvation. If so, this is a remarkably narrow and short-sighted view.


538 posted on 07/22/2005 3:17:01 PM PDT by dsmcf
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To: dagnabbit

Precisely how did 32 people manage to legally immigrate from the US into the US? Enquiring minds and all that...


539 posted on 07/22/2005 3:22:41 PM PDT by dsmcf
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To: TAquinas
I'm not for random searches, rather for targeted searches and profiling would help tremendously.

I agree but we both know that grannies and yuppies will end up being the ones searched. I also imagine that this will be used as an excuse to search those who fit a profile of a recreational drug user.

In this case, a guy blowing himself in a crowded subway station can be just as devastating as blowing himself in a subway car. The London bombers haven't killed very many people at all. The bad guys will not be caught or deterred the least bit by the searches.

All this measure does is give the police an excuse to search you. This should be very worrisome to those who love freedom.

The war on drugs has already eroded most of our freedoms - I fear that the war on terrorism will erode the rest.

540 posted on 07/22/2005 3:23:21 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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