NYers to NYPD: 'I Do Not Consent to Being Searched'

The Village Voice ^ | July 21st, 200 | by Chisun Lee

[RedRover]

This shirt is being sold in a far left publication that routinely portrays Bush as a vampire, as a Nazi, etc.
The maker of the shirt is an activist for illegal immigrants.
People who will be buying and wearing this shirt are being defiant of the searches. They are the same people who make New York and America less safe by being pro-illegal, anti-gun, anti-profiling.

[TAquinas]

"Stay .... inside .... and ... you ... will .... be .... safer .... than .... if .... you .... go .... outside."

Stay inside? What's the matter with you?

If we followed that tip of yours, the world will come to a crawl, nay, civilization itself would halt. How how does this help catching the bad guys?

[JeffAtlanta]

I could easily make the case that the border cannot be sealed adequately to stop a small team of determined and well funded terrorists from crossing

That would actually be an accurate statement. The reason to seal the border is stop the millions of immigrants who come here illegally and severely burden our social services.

Making it harder for potential terrorists would just be a potential benefit.

Note that if a terrorist was stopped by the border patrol and then blew themselves up, it wouldn't have the same effect as a terrorist detonating themselves in a crowded subway security line.

That point is very important as a terrorist that is stopped from entering a subway car can kill just as many people and cause just as much harm if he detonates while in the security line. This is truly a "feel good" measure that the left usually enjoys - I am surprised that conservatives are being fooled by it.

[Not A Snowbird]

I'm not going to get into a flame war with you.

I grasped you just fine, my FRiend. You were twisting my words and I was trying to clarify so we could have a conversation.

I won't bother.

[lemura]

I actually like the stop-n-search policy from a strictly Machievillian perspective. The conceit of every generation is that they believe their experiences are unique. Since there is limited institutional memory, people tend to forget what type of people created the US; but the genes don't.

At some point, the f-you attitude will boil over and the real culprits will be targeted. However, this may take another generation or so - we should probably give the phony WOT a chance. That way, there won't be much disagreement when more dramatic war measures are implemented in the correct overseas targets.

[68 grunt]

... eastern front, silly boy ...

[MarshallDillon]

I still like the 4th amendment, backed up by the 2nd amendment.... Who cares about the cool-aid drinkers?

[JeffAtlanta]

How how does this help catching the bad guys?

How does conducting random searches in the subway help catch any bad guys? The odds of searching the right guy are astronomical and even if you do pick out the right one, he will detonate himself where he stands and take a cop and whoever else is standing nearby. It will cause just as much damage and fear and the bad guy will not still not be caught as it was his plan to blow himself up in any event.

I'm not saying that we have to give up. What the people who value freedom in this thread are saying is that it is silly to give up very important constitutional freedoms for an effort that is useless.

[oceanview]

I agree - we want the border sealed because of the illegal immigration problem.

but imagine if no one wanted to come here from Mexico - that we didn't have an immigration issue. and that border security was only about keeping out potential terrorists and criminals. should we not do it? should we eliminate all visas, passports, just make it wide open - since after all, the odds of catching someone is so low, why bother?

take a bunch of these "feel good" low odds measures all together, and I feel it makes a difference.

[durasell]

On some days, my bag is searched three or four times. Library, office buildings, museums, etc. One more time won't make a difference.

[oceanview]

well, all I can tell you is that the very police department we are speaking of - NYPD - conducted sweeping stop and frisk activites to get crime under control when Rudy took office. I see no evidence it was random - specific neighboorhoods were targeted, that alone constitutes a form of profiling. I didn't see any court rulings stopping it. what stopped it? the Diallo shooting.

[TAquinas]

Oceanview: "I could easily make the case that the border cannot be sealed adequately to stop a small team of determined and well funded terrorists from crossing"

That's ridiculous. According to your "case," we should open the border gates to the immigrant alien since one or two terrorist might slip through the net if the borders were sealed. The fact is that closing the borders prevents the crossing of 99.99% of criminal aliens terrorists and foreign murderers. Keeping them open allows for 99.99% of the world's trash to come in at their pleasure.

JeffAtlanta: "That would actually be an accurate statement. The reason to seal the border is stop the millions of immigrants who come here illegally and severely burden our social services."

The Open Borders crackpots are either confused and naive, or they intentionally would love to see our country's sovereignty lost to hordes of colonizing Third World aliens.

[Cincinna]

You have the right to refuse being searched.
We have the right to refuse to let you ride our subways.

[TAquinas]

Excellent!

I take a bow to you, Sir/Madam.

[JeffAtlanta]

and that border security was only about keeping out potential terrorists and criminals. should we not do it?

The difference is that securing the border does not infringe or erode any constitutional freedoms - random searches do.

The problem with this measure is that is both futile and infringes on constitutional freedoms. The futility and ineffectiveness of the plan wouldn't be that big of a deal if were more friendly to the constitution. And for what it's worth, the constitutional issues wouldn't be as big of deal if it were a very effective approach.

This approach however does nothing but erode freedoms and inconvenience law abiding citizens.

[dagnabbit]

Immigration leftists like Clinton and Bush have traded our right to live in liberty in a safe Western nation-state for the glorious diversity of an islam-infected "world-country".

Four years after 9-11, and Bush (or is it Clinton or Kerry - can't tell them apart on this issue) is still pouring foreign muslims into our homeland at the rate of 100,000 per year. Bush's eight years of "leadership" will add another million muslims to the USA through legal immigration and the US-born children of those immigrants.

Here's what he (and Congress) did to America in one year alone (2002)

Birth Country	Legal USA Immigrants 2002	Muslim population percentage	Estimated 2002 Muslim Legal Immigrants
Pakistan	9,415	97	9,133
Iran	7,230	99	7,158
India	50,228	14	7,032
Philippines	45,250	14	6,335
Nigeria	7,872	75	5,904
Ethiopia	6,635	65	4,313
Bangladesh	4,616	85	3,924
Egypt	3,348	94	3,147
Morocco	3,137	99	3,096
Turkey	3,029	100	3,023
Jordan	2,927	95	2,781
Albania	3,362	75	2,522
Russia	13,935	18	2,508
Somalia	2,444	100	2,444
Iraq	2,450	97	2,377
Lebanon	2,956	70	2,069
Syria	1,938	90	1,744
Indonesia	1,805	95	1,715
Sudan	1,883	85	1,601
Yemen	1,382	99	1,368
Ghana	4,410	30	1,323
Uzbekistan	1,445	88	1,272
Afghanistan	1,252	100	1,252
Guyana	6,809	15	1,021
Sierra Leone	1,492	65	970
Kenya	3,209	30	947
Algeria	759	99	751
Niger	808	91	735
Saudi Arabia	735	100	735
Romania	3,655	20	731
Azerbaijan	746	93	697
Togo	1,187	55	653
Kuwait	707	89	629
Malaysia	1,200	52	624
Serbia and Mont.	2,994	19	569
Bulgaria	3,825	14	536
Liberia	1,766	30	530
Cameroon	927	55	510
Senegal	522	95	496
Eritrea	556	80	445
Thailand	3,126	14	438
Israel	2,741	14	384
UAE	380	96	365
Tanzania	554	65	360
Tunisia	353	98	346
Cote d'Ivoire	483	60	290
Kyrgyzstan	356	76	271
United Kingdom	9,527	3	257
Macedonia	653	30	196
Germany	5,064	3	172
Canada	11,350	1	168
France	2,375	7	166
Uganda	455	36	164
Libya	140	100	140
Mauritania	131	100	131
Guinea-Bissau	176	70	123
Fiji	1,095	11	120
Burma	1,193	10	119
Tajikistan	137	85	116
Sri Lanka	1,246	9	112
Mali	124	90	112
Singapore	582	17	99
Nepal	2,095	4	84
Georgia	735	11	81
Oman	76	100	76
Turkmenistan	84	87	73
Qatar	72	100	72
Argentina	3,129	2	63
Japan	5,971	1	60
Bahrain	59	100	59
Zimbabwe	358	15	54
Panama	1,164	4	47
Suriname	180	25	45
South Africa	2,210	2	44
Zambia	280	15	42
Cyprus	123	33	41
Australia	1,836	2	38
Brazil	6,331	1	38
Hong Kong	3,574	1	36
Sweden	963	4	35
Burkina Faso	60	50	30
Netherlands	981	3	29
Guinea	29	95	28
Cambodia	2,263	1	23
Malawi	62	35	22
Italy	1,644	1	16
Djibouti	16	94	15
Maldives	15	100	15
Burundi	74	20	15
Angola	59	25	15
Croatia	1,153	1	14
Brunei	20	63	13
Benin	76	15	11
Mauritius	57	20	11
Mozambique	36	29	10
Greece	651	2	10
Madagascar	40	20	8
Chad	8	85	7
Mongolia	153	4	6
Malta	37	14	5
Norway	320	2	5
Cen. African Rep.	6	55	3
Comoros	3	86	3
Swaziland	23	10	2
Namibia	40	5	2
Aruba	27	5	1
Botswana	27	5	1
United States	32	4	1
Rwanda	109	1	1
Bhutan	15	5	1
Slovenia	64	1	1
Reunion	3	20	1
Lesotho	5	10	1
TOTAL			95,577

[TAquinas]

"How does conducting random searches in the subway help catch any bad guys?"

I'm not for random searches, rather for targeted searches and profiling would help tremendously.

[dsmcf]

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

This guy who wrote the original article in question may have drawn his conclusions as to the inappropriateness of Bloomberg's action for reasons that you and I might not agree with. That does not automatically make his conclusion wrong. For my part, I recall being appalled but unsurprised by the new policy within moments of hearing about it earlier today.

I have only read about a third of the messages in this thread, but must heartily second the opinions expressed in message 484. I am astonished to see so many supposedly right-thinking people on this board happily relinquish their rights and freedoms with nary a concern for the consequences. Perhaps it is that many on this board avoid NYC at all costs anyway and regard it as past salvation. If so, this is a remarkably narrow and short-sighted view.

[dsmcf]

Precisely how did 32 people manage to legally immigrate from the US into the US? Enquiring minds and all that...

[JeffAtlanta]

I'm not for random searches, rather for targeted searches and profiling would help tremendously.

I agree but we both know that grannies and yuppies will end up being the ones searched. I also imagine that this will be used as an excuse to search those who fit a profile of a recreational drug user.

In this case, a guy blowing himself in a crowded subway station can be just as devastating as blowing himself in a subway car. The London bombers haven't killed very many people at all. The bad guys will not be caught or deterred the least bit by the searches.

All this measure does is give the police an excuse to search you. This should be very worrisome to those who love freedom.

The war on drugs has already eroded most of our freedoms - I fear that the war on terrorism will erode the rest.