Venona Ten Years Later: Lessons for Today

History News Network ^ | 7-18-05 | Steven T. Usdin

[nopardons]

There used to be a LOT of threads about McCarthy and the Vernona stuff on FR. Lots and lots of dots were connected. I bet they're all still in FR's archives. :-)

I have a dentist appointment, so I'll off here soon, myself.

Nighty night and again, many thanks for the ping; I really appreciate it.

[Just A Nobody]

Thanks for the info. I am still learning just what all FR has to offer. Until recently, I could not be on much. Glad you enjoyed the thread. Enjoy the dentist - G'night. ;*)

[King Prout]

ping

[John Filson]

Sometimes McCarthy has been criticized for not revealing evidence he was using against his accused. Now we know why: some of the evidence came through VENONA, and he didn't want to reveal his source. When Edward R. Murrow claimed that no man could terrorize an entire nation without his help, he should have been talking about Stalin, not McCarthy -- but alas, he was talking about a patriotic American who was doing his best, with excellent evidence (in most cases) to alert his countrymen of an attack from inside. It's too bad that liberals automatically accuse aggressive patriots of excess without being able to prove their accusations. What a difference it would have made if Murrow hadn't launched his incredibly successful attempt to slander McCarthy. For one thing, we could have gone after the most heinous communists in the press and in the universities, as well as Hollywood. Instead they've had 50 years to undermine our unity -- in our children.

[Liz]

ping for a comment

[Misterioso]

Kathryn Graham was Phil's wife. Martha Graham was a dancer and choreographer.

[wayoverontheright]

Did Witness have a profound impact on you? I read it about two years ago, and it is in my personal top five of all time. Absolutely riveting, deeply moving book.

Whittaker Chambers' Witness definitely had a profound impact on me, not only the narrative but what a magnificent writer he was.

For those interested in those times, Ron Radosh, a former lefty and life-long Rosenberg apologist, set out to write a book exonerating the Rosenbergs, and, even without Venona info, came to the conclusion that they were indeed guilty. Of course, he was swiftly ostracized by his former fellow travellers, and has now crossed over from the dark side.His subsequent book, Commies is also very good.

Also, Alger Hiss: Looking Glass Wars by G. Edward White, a modern-day UVA professor, is a must read for those who read Witness and want more on the topic.

[SauronOfMordor]

The pertinent question is no longer whether Americans spied, but rather how highly educated, intelligent men and women failed to comprehend the true nature of Stalinist communism, and why they were willing to risk their lives and imperil the security of their families, neighbors and friends to commit crimes on behalf of a foreign power opposed to the basic tenets of modern society.

The seductive aspect of Communism comes from its promise of a planned society. For some people, the challenges and uncertainty of the market economy make them uncomfortable. Many of them feel like the market economy has not recognized their true greatness, and are bitter about it

Many Communists fantasize themselves as becoming members of the "planner" class "after the revolution", when they can tell the rest of us how to live. Something like the rape fantasies of some guys

[tiamat]

Thanks.

Bump

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

The left in America has always believed that communism, in one form or another is the goal. They believe Soviet Communism only failed because the people forcing it on the world were flawed.

The left in America believes that under the right people Communism would work and they believe they are those people. They will try to coerce us into accepting communism and they will always feel morally superior to us when they do it.

Michael Frazier

[Fedora]

ping for a comment

Thanks for the ping. I'm on a bit of a time crunch today, but some quick comments:

It's true the government sometimes didn't reveal its evidence in order to protect Venona. I'm not aware McCarthy had any direct access to Venona, though (on this see John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr's Venona, 396n11: "The authors have several times asked if Senator McCarthy had knowledge of the Venona decryptions, perhaps leaked to him. . .There is no evidence that McCarthy had any such information. . .The targets he picked for his accusations do not suggest Venona as a source. . .")--as far as I know if he had any information from US government files he got it indirectly via ex-FBI agents and reporters who'd received FBI leaks. (Something in the background of this worth noting is that in order to obstruct Nixon's investigation of Alger Hiss, President Truman--who was not a Communist sympathizer but viewed the Hiss investigation in partisan terms--had issued an Executive Order in March 1948 legally prohibiting Congress from access to FBI files, so Nixon had to rely on indirect access to investigate Hiss, and McCarthy subsequently faced the same obstacle.) As for Murrow, what I find interesting there is his background with Elmer Davis in the Office of War Information's WWII propaganda operation, which was run by journalists and newscasters with a left-wing bent and which we now know from Venona had been penetrated by at least half a dozen Soviet agents during the war (some whose identities have yet to be deciphered). I tend to think the liberal bias in today's media stems from the left-wing influence in the wartime OWI being passed on to the postwar media.

[texasbluebell]

I have to tell you, the story of Joseph McCarthy has had a profound influence on my life.

You reminded me of this photo. Have you seen it?

Link to photo of AC at McCarthy's grave in case the photo doesn't show up.

link

[rlmorel]

Thank you for posting that.

There are some who hate Ann Coulter, but...she has shown herself to be much more truthful than her detractors...

[colorado tanker]

Oppy was quite a lefty and was stripped of his security clearance, but I've never seen any documentation that he was a sov agent. Truth is they didn't need him, as the Manhattan Project was so thoroughly penetrated.

[texasbluebell]

Yes, she has. Ann is one of the good "guys".

[rlmorel]

He was good at what he did.

I read an interesting book recently, "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". A really funny read, not really an autobiography, just a collection of stories from his life.

He tells how when his wife was ill and about to die when he was in Los Alamos, he had to borrow a car to drive to the hospital...

The car he borrowed belonged to a guy named Fuchs...who you may recognize as the biggest spy there. Small world, I guess.

[colorado tanker]

I love reading stuff about Feynmann; he was such an interesting and brilliant man. He was genuinely devoted to his wife, who he lost at an early age.

Claus Fuchs. Ugh. The British were even more penetrated than we were.

[rlmorel]

If you love reading stuff about him, and you haven't read the book, you REALLY must.

He sounds like a loose cannon, or a lose screw, or both, but I thought he was a real critter.

[rcocean]

Saw several plays, TV shows making him out to be a poor, honest, soul, stripped of his clearance because of those nasty witch hunters.

Of course, I swallowed the propaganda and believed it.

Then I read Herken's biography of Lawrence and Oppy. Seems Oppy's wife was a commie, his brother was a commie, his two closest teaching assistants at Berkeley were commies.

Furthermoe, he attended commie meetings at his house in the late 30's. In fact his brother was approached by the NKVD while working on the Manhattan Project to spy for the USSR. Oppy's brother did NOT disclose this to the government and was kicked off the project as a security risk. Oppy also helped hire Ted Hall, just outed as a soviet spy, and Fuchs.

[blam]

"Oppy was quite a lefty and was stripped of his security clearance, but I've never seen any documentation that he was a sov agent. Truth is they didn't need him, as the Manhattan Project was so thoroughly penetrated."

In the book, Venona, there's a name that has never been connected with a person...some believe it was Oppenheimer. My son (PhD Physics) was broken hearted when I told him that.

Also, I read somewhere that Stalin knew of the success of Trinity before Truman did.