China's nanotech revolution ("rivaling even the capacities of the United States")

AsianResearch.org ^ | Alexandr Nemets

[Tax Government]

Boycott China. Tax Chinese imports prohibitively. Require a very visible red star label on Chinese merchanidse. Require % Chinese content be visibly displayed on labels of anything.

[chariotdriver]

It seems all of your assertions are based upon the ChiComs having equivalent technology to superpowers.

A China Taiwan conflict will have many many more layers of variables.

For instance.. how long do the subs really need to last beyond first launch?
You liken the MiG-21 to outdated technology like a rifle against an assault weapon the 21 has ground attack capability , a rifle will nullify you as good as an assault weapon. The ChiComs got enough people to throw them like 1000's of rifles at us.
So what stealth is beyond them, So what they have no AWACS. In a surprise mass assault they don't need it. They will just overwhelm us with human waves like they did in Korea

They almost beat us in Korea, if Truman and the General had not threatened the nuke they probably would not have ceased operations.

In spite of what all the strategy websites say, we don't really know what all they have. They might have hundreds even thousands J8, J11, H16, JH7 fighter and attack aircraft squirreled away.

If they go nuke in the Taiwan Strait and around Taiwan (but avoid Taiwan mainland) that will nullify US advantage at the same time make it difficult for US to engage nuclear.

I don't know how it will go down and neither do you. Perhaps we can agree on this thread that it WILL GO DOWN

[truemiester]

The Chinese have had a tech-choke point of Turbo-fan engine technologies. GE will give it to them.

[American in Israel]

I'm remaining sceptical and unimpressed by the hysteria about China,

I think that is called Pride.

[jonrick46]

Nano technology is a huge effort in the United States. It will make the invention of the microchip look small compared to what will take place in the near future. I will trust that the United States is light years ahead of anything China has developed.

[Pitt_the_Elder]

BTW, it's a little difficult to say we couldn't have stopped China, when we're the only nation that practices trade deficits with it, and probably eclipse the trade of all other nations combined by double.

No, and no.

The EU, for example, has a $90 billion trade deficit with China (vs. $160 billion for the US). China's total trade (import+export) with the US is $220 billion, which is only about 20% of China's total trade (import+export) of $1150 billion.

Exerting economic influence over China will be more complicated than simply slapping on tariffs.

[ProudVet77]

The Chinese have had a tech-choke point of Turbo-fan engine technologies. GE will give it to them.

You're absolutely right on that. That does worry me, and I gather GE is going to build a plant over there. The only upside is that it's not for "state of the art" engines as used in fighters and cruise missiles.

[ProudVet77]

Not having heard Drudge it's hard to respond.
But there is no indication of them having launched 18 subs recently. The current build rate from everything I've read is about 1-2 subs per year.
Beware of what is called an amphibious ship. These numbers include LCMs and LCUs which are nothing more than landing craft. While not dismissing them, they have small capacity.
For a source I prefer to use globalsecurity.com, whenever I do fact checking their numbers are usually quite accurate. For the PLAN here's their numbers http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/navy.htm feel free to poke around.
They also do a decent job of analysis of the taiwan situation: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/taiwan.htm

[ProudVet77]

It is fair to say that it will go down, probably in 5-15 years. On the plus side we are doing all the right things to be prepared. We have some very exciting capabilites in the pipeline, many of which will be ready on time.
While quantity has a quality of it's own, the truth is that it's going to be a shooting gallery. A MiG-21 without proper radar and ECM/EW electronics amounts to being a target drone for AMRAAMs.
One thing that we have that is crucial is battle management systems. Networking our systems (like Aegis and AWACs) is an incredible force multiplier. It allows us to handle a huge number of threats. If you have time google ForceNet.

[Kelly_2000]

there is lot's of data concerning where their facilities are and how much funding the government is offering Chinese industry. but nothing specific concerning the level their technology has reached? Or what applications are developed for market or Military yet?

Not so informing unfortunately

[Sam's Army]

Read later

[ProudVet77]

Just found this while surfing. This will give you an idea of just one of the current systems in the works.

JANE'S DEFENCE INDUSTRY - JULY 01, 2005


PROGRAMME UPDATE - Northrop Grumman begins J-UCAS construction

James Murphy

Key points:
*Northrop Grumman has begun construction of the X-47B Joint - Unmanned Combat Air Systems (J-UCAS) aircraft.
*The X-47B is competing with Boeing's X-45C under the DARPA-led operational assessment phase of the J-UCAS demonstration programme.

NORTHROP Grumman Corporation of San Diego, California, has started construction of its X-47B Joint - Unmanned Combat Air Systems (J-UCAS) aircraft.

Production will take place at the manufacturing facility of Northrop Grumman's team-mate GKN Aerospace, in St Louis, Missouri. GKN is responsible for the design and fabrication of the X-47B's forward fuselage.

Final assembly of the first aircraft will begin in mid-2005 at Northrop Grumman's facility in Palmdale, California.

The US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) awarded Northrop Grumman a contract worth US$1.04 billion in October 2004 to transition the X-47B into the operational assessment and demonstration phase of the programme.

Northrop Grumman has been designing, developing and testing three X-47B air vehicles, three mission-control systems and a common operating system since 2004. This phase is expected to last until 2009.

Boeing is also developing another unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV), called the X-45C, under the same DARPA-led operational assessment phase of the J-UCAS demonstration programme.

The J-UCAS programme is intended to field a stealthy UCAV with integrated sensors, navigation and communications capable of operating in the network-centric battlefield that is expected to emerge in the coming years.

Key missions envisioned for the UCAVs include suppression of enemy air defences, the ability to conduct surveillance deep into an enemy's denied airspace, and precision strike.

The vehicles, capable of operating from land bases or aircraft carriers, will have a combat radius of 1,500 n miles, a weapons payload of 2,025 kg, an electronic warning system and integrated synthetic-aperture radar.

[Happy2BMe]

Remarkably, developments within the industry have been both civilian and military in purpose, though the latter has, of course, enjoyed a higher degree of priority.

=====================

We can't blame this on the Dems anymore. We still feed China all the technology they want or ask for.

Their's is a dual-purpose society. They reserve every technology for military use.

Plus, they aren't undergoing a mesmerizing and crippling invasion undermining their infrastructure as is the United States.

They must be very, very happy with the way things are turning out.

[A. Pole]

76,000 square meters immediately became available for nanotech firms. Plans had been made for an additional 200,000 square meter facility

Another buggy whip industry to be get rid of!

American taxpayers should spend more money on education and development of new technologies.

[swampfox98]

Our leaders are messing with fire when it comes to China. We are going to pay heavily for this. I probably won't, but my children and grandchildren most certainly will.

I agree and I believe you will live to see it. America is becoming weaker by the year, socially, politicially and economically. China knows this, as many spies have come across our open borders, and report back to their leaders, and they have to be seeing the rotting of America.

[Paul Ross]

This presumes that we could have kept them from getting 'off and running'. That started over 20 years ago when they gave up on pure communism and started opening their economy to investment and trade.

We could...and should have. At this point, the worst genie is likely out of the bottle, with their grad students at our universities technical departments by the legions, still manifestly fire-breathing Marxist Chinese warmongers.

They never "gave up" on "pure communism". Instead, they perceived a short-cut to catching up...and if we were foolish enough...surpassing the U.S. Their doctrine taught that communism is the final stage of capitalist evolution. And since their society had no capital to speak of, they needed to sucker in Western capitalists to give them modern technological/industrial capital...which would jump start their own. They would fully control these capital aggregates by setting up communist party front-operations, "companies" -requirng the Westerners "Partner" with... which they would later co-opt in a second (or third) revolution.

A grandiose new version of Lenin's New Economic Program...when he declared his communist experiment over, and would no longer be doctrrinaire and would open up to Western investment. Even sucked ardent anti-communist Henry Ford in.

Deng Xiouping made clear to his fellow hardliner purists in the Party that in fact they were not giving up on their Communist objectives and ultimate control of everything...when he explained: "Whether you call the cat black or white is not important. What matters is if it still catches mice." This blood-curdling metaphor is faithfully enacted in the most current version of the Chinese Constitution, which makes clear that the Party/State rules in every aspect, even in the 'reformed' zones.

I believe that in order to protect our national security and sovereignty we can withdraw from the Chinese economy, and expel all Chinese students who do not publicly renounce their country's communism, and make their goods prohibitive. All of this will have tremendous cost on us. But also marvelous opportunities to restore American primacy and economic power which is slipping fast.

Anyways, for the last 35 years clearly, since Nixon went to China, we have been under an illusion as to who and what we are dealing with in China. And given them every benefit of the doubt and every break. Up to and inclusive of granting them MFN status, WTO entry, etc. Ignoring their civil rights violations, and systemmic oppressions and subjugations of neigbors and even their direct warmongering against us.

It is a policy of unadulterated and sickening appeasement. To take your George Washington text's proper meaning and apply it to that reality (see below for his FULL context which is clearly against your slant), that we are behaving in a delusory fashion to China, treating them as a friend, when they are not:

"The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.

Yes, the phony free traders...i.e., "Foreign Intersts"... and the communist/globalists in our own Fifth Column have indeed led us astray, and we have inherited a hell of a mess.

First order of business, is to clearly understand however that the enemy was not completely defeated. Not at all here in the U.S. campuses, NPCs and Foundations, or the media...or in the People's Republic of China. It just went into camouflage and is biding its time while using our own hubris against us. And all wings of these communists conjoin together for their common purposes. U.S. communists apparently differ whether the capital of the world socialist government should be in New York...or Brussels...or Bejing. Bejing's communists are not squeamish about their choice.

When your quote from George Washington's Farewell Address was uttered...Sept. 17, 1796... there was not an implacable communist menace. But there has been in most of the last century, and it persists and waxes still today. I have no doubt George Washington would have never denied the need for "habitual" opposition to the grand conspiracy in order to preserve liberty in our own land. Here is his FULL TEXT:

Farewell Address, President George Washington

September 17, 1796

"Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and Morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and, at no distant period, a great Nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. Who can doubt, that, in the course of time and things, the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages, which might be lost by a steady adherence to it? Can it be that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a Nation with its Virtue? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices?

In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential, than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular Nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The Nation, which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The Nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The Government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of Nations has been the victim.

So likewise, a passionate attachment of one Nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite Nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite Nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the Nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained; and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.

As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the Public Councils! Such an attachment of a small or weak, towards a great and powerful nation, dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. But that jealousy, to be useful, must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation, and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favorite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop."

[Paul Ross]

He apparently missed this part of George Washington's Farewell Address:

Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government!

[Gunslingr3]

"The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.

Yes, the phony free traders...i.e., "Foreign Intersts"... and the communist/globalists in our own Fifth Column have indeed led us astray, and we have inherited a hell of a mess.

The 'habitual fondness' is the category that erstwhile allies like Israel and other beneficiaries of American military equipment at U.S. taxpayer expense represent.

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible."

You oppose the commercial relations, whereas Washington and I see them as the best path to lasting peace. I don't presume, perhaps as you do, that the Chinese government can forever keep the lid on its people's liberty, particularly as they get a taste of ours.

[Paul Ross]

I will grant you that the unwise executive order letting Israel have access to the candy store, so to speak, has proven unwise. But, I see you ignore the relevant points of George Washington, as applied to China, still. You make this amazing claim:

I don't presume, perhaps as you do, that the Chinese government can forever keep the lid on its people's liberty, particularly as they get a taste of ours.

They can...and will... if we don't help those people. The Soviet Union did not fall of its own accord. They were pushed. It's internal dissidents were enabled by a policy of CONFRONTATION by the U.S.

President Ronald Reagan operated a broad multi-faceted four-point attack on the Soviets.

Military (countering at strategic and tactical technology and deployment levels. And Marxist geopolitical insurgencies in our Hemisphere...and in the Middle East neutralized).
Economic (isolation of Soviets from all mature Western advanced and new technology, and Western capital sources, as well as oil and energy resources, from their grasp).
Political. (Renewed and fresh alliances both military and economic...Thatcher, NATO, etc.)
Idealogical/Spiritual/Moral. (The beacon of liberty...hope was held high. The enemy was properly named as evil, and his deeds held to account. And those of like understanding embraced. Dissidents, religious and civil. The Pope, etc.)

Nothing similar is in place today to topple the Chinese Communist Party. Have you read Constantine Menge's new book? The hope that the Chinese Communist party will soften just out of trade, of its own accord, is vanity. And the hope that the people of China will someday successfully revolt has been disappointed. Again and again. The degree of error by the West (most explicitly, GHWB) during the Tiannamen Square disaster has still not been properly appreciated by most conservatives yet.

You preach indefinite waiting. To what end? It took 70 years of slavery in Russia before Ronald Reagan came along to help them. The Maoists and successors have been in power now for over 50+ years. Don't assume if we let the PRC become a military/economic super power that it will become benign...or any less communist-minded. That flies in the face of actual history. Mark Steyn previously noted this same disconnect by the apologists.

Deng Xiouping: "What does it matter if you call the cat black or white. So long as it catches mice."

[Paul Ross]

You oppose the commercial relations, whereas Washington and I see them as the best path to lasting peace

Who says I oppose commercial relations? However, they need to be used to topple the communists. Not us. And you mistakenly assume again that George Washington is in your camp. I am in his. George Washington, in fact, was a firm believer in and advocate for protective tariffs...to promote U.S. manufactures and independence from foreign sources. Alexander Hamilton was his architect for them.