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Doctor: Schiavo Autopsy Conclusions Flawed
NewsMax ^ | 6/19/05 | Carl Limbacher

Posted on 06/19/2005 6:04:50 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: Peach

Dr. H has the personality of a huckster.

I guess the reason there are no charges with regard to
his claim has to do with the fact he WAS nominated
for the Nobel -- he just doesn't explain that it was an
INVALID nomination :-)

But his situation is more complicated than appears from
posts here. The charges (in both legal and financial
definitions) were reversed, as Media Matter explained.
They were wrong on this and said they regretted it.

The most interesting article cited on forums is
this one: St. Petersburg article about Hammesfahr at
http://tinyurl.com/6549f

He seems an intelligent, creative guy who is
irresponsibly lazy about going the approved medical
route (peer review process) to prove the efficacy of his
treatment theories (which have surprisingly good results).

Some might want to rethink whether they'd try his
treatment when general medicine has given up on them
though.

Regarding autopsy findings that 'pvs' was consistent
with what they found physically, 'minimally conscious'
state (believed by Mayo neurologist Dr. Cheshire to be
the accurate clinical diagnosis for Schiavo), here is
another article cited on forums that I imagine most will
find fascinating. It's about research at Sloan
Kettering with brain energy studies. Note the differences
between pvs and mc states.
http://www.msu.edu/course/hm/546/nyt_pvs.htm


661 posted on 06/21/2005 3:04:13 AM PDT by Anne Chin
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To: Anne Chin

An edit here for the last paragraph above.
It should have read:

-----"Regarding autopsy findings that 'pvs' was consistent
with what they found physically, 'minimally conscious'
state (believed by Mayo neurologist Dr. Cheshire to be
the accurate clinical diagnosis for Schiavo) was also.

Here is another article cited on forums that I imagine
most will find fascinating. It's about research at Sloan
Kettering with brain energy studies. Note the differences
between pvs and mc states.
http://www.msu.edu/course/hm/546/nyt_pvs.htm
"
-----


662 posted on 06/21/2005 3:09:22 AM PDT by Anne Chin
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To: ClancyJ

Good points, but Michael didn't remember Terri's "wishes"
until FIVE years *after* he got the award for her care
(untouched at that point until 1999 and at the point he
was starting a new family and moving in with his fiance).

The money was intact in 1998. The memories apparently
came flooding in and were 'supported' suddenly by his
brother and his brother's wife.

Now, a few months after he got the money for her care
(which he said he would be happy to do forever), he
gave instructions to the nursing care facility to "not
treat" an infection he later admitted in testimony he
knew might kill her. He also gave a Do Not Treat order
in case of a sudden failure. The nursing facility
objected and challenged him. This was in late '93.
They won on that. He testified he would not be doing
that again because he now knew it was illegal.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/terri.html

The money for her care would stay in the fund
for those 5 years. His flood of memories would have
positioned him to inherit it. However, the parents
fought this, and Michael had to spend about $600,000
of it on legal bills instead after '98.


663 posted on 06/21/2005 3:23:03 AM PDT by Anne Chin
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To: ClancyJ
Beautifully explained

I pray that you and the other posters here will be able to see that we are merely fighting for the status quo - the America we always have had.

664 posted on 06/21/2005 3:53:59 AM PDT by maica (Do not believe the garbage the media is feeding you back home. ---Allegra (in Iraq))
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
That proves she could open her eyes,

When asked to - something that requires processing in her brain.

665 posted on 06/21/2005 4:31:51 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: blueriver

You said the implants should have been removed. I asked for a link to that.


666 posted on 06/21/2005 4:42:08 AM PDT by Peach
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To: bjs1779

"Yawn. Where is the crime?"

Why must there be a crime?

Durbin didn't commit a crime.
That doesn't make him any less of grandstanding-self-promoting-exploiting-the-moment ass.


667 posted on 06/21/2005 4:47:17 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: T'wit; cyncooper

Dr. Hammesfahr "It has nothing to do with Terri."

Twit, if someone is going to publish the opinions of someone and use the same to bolster their case, that someone has to have some degree of credibility if they're to be believed. If they have not credibility what's the point of the opinion?

They may as well have used PeeWee Herman to write the article.


668 posted on 06/21/2005 4:51:49 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: bjs1779; highball

"Dude, Hammersfarb is a con man, a snake oil salesman,"
"That is what they tried to prove alright. It didn't work out your way however."

Duuuuude. Read the court transcripts. He was dismissed as anything serious/of value.


669 posted on 06/21/2005 4:54:02 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Saundra Duffy
>> For one thing, the reason Michael Schiavo was awarded all that dough was found to be false.

Yes, indeed. I puzzled that he ever won that case, but nobody really fought it. That is, they didn't seriously contest the bulimia claim, probably because nobody had any other idea how it happened. The settlement seemed less like a verdict than a compromise all around to raise money for Terri's care, with the insurance company saying OK but no more than $xxxx.

One lesson: never, never, never let lawyers touch a trust fund.

670 posted on 06/21/2005 5:01:34 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Fourth Law: Liberals are always wrong, even when they come down on both sides of the issue.)
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To: Desron13

"Notice that good old Mikey the Ghoul wouldn't allow a brain scan to be performed while this poor woman was alive."

What is your understanding of page 20 of the autopsy regarding this issue, the FDA advisory pertaining to MRI's and people with implanted electrodes?


671 posted on 06/21/2005 5:04:08 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

Sorry, I don't follow your point. Never mind, no more time for it anyway. Peace.


672 posted on 06/21/2005 5:04:32 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Fourth Law: Liberals are always wrong, even when they come down on both sides of the issue.)
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To: Peach; DJ MacWoW

"Unfortunately, he couldn't distinguish between a coma and PVS at trial."

But he did stay at a Holiday Inn!!!


673 posted on 06/21/2005 5:05:35 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Peach
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp

"So why hasn’t an MRI been done for Terri? That question has never been satisfactorily answered. George Felos has argued that an MRI can’t be done because of thalamic implants that were placed in Terri’s skull during the last attempt at therapy, dating back to 1992. But Felos’s contention ignores the fact that these implants could be removed. Indeed, the doctor who put them in instructed Michael to have them removed. Michael has never done so. "

674 posted on 06/21/2005 5:18:43 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Peach

Living wills are death warrants. The presumption in a good society must be for life.


675 posted on 06/21/2005 5:21:54 AM PDT by bvw
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To: blueriver

Thank you for the link. I've read through quite a lot of medical testimony and don't recall their suggesting the implants come out. I guess, considering that even our usual reliable conservative press has gotten so much about this case wrong in terms of the medical stuff, that I'd rather know what the docs who actually treated her said.

Under oath. Not just what National Review said the doctors said. If that makes sense. But I thank you for finding that link.


676 posted on 06/21/2005 5:22:21 AM PDT by Peach
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To: bvw
So you don't even want people to have living wills? Is that your position?

See, that's why so many people had trouble with this. We see OUR right of self determination, when we've already clinically died, taken away from us by people with an agenda.

It's not God keeping us alive at the point a living will comes into existence, it's machines.
677 posted on 06/21/2005 5:25:08 AM PDT by Peach
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To: Smartaleck
Read the court transcripts. He was dismissed as anything serious/of value.

I think many people that found what happened to Terri to be wrong all attribute a huge part of the failing to be that which occurred in the court room under George Greer. So when you say the court did this and the court did that and so it must be ok makes it only look like you are not hearing a word of what people are syaing.

678 posted on 06/21/2005 5:27:17 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Peach; DJ MacWoW
Neither Dr. Hammesfahr(variously described quack) nor Dr. Maxfield (radiologist) was able to credibly testify that the treatment options that they offered would significantly improve Terry Schiavo's quality of life.

The parents used a Dr. Weber (osteopath) to justify their appeal but curiously didn't select him when it came time for the 5 physicians to examine Terri.

The whole procedure is summed up nicely in the Wolfson report to the court.
679 posted on 06/21/2005 5:36:28 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Peach; ClancyJ
ClancyJ posted this info yesterday. Here's the most pertinent part:
"[Florida's] 765 law was changed to allow an "friend" to say that the person wanted life-prolonging procedures withdrawn without a written directive.

They also state that advanced directives providing for treatment should not carry the same weight as directives withdrawing care, and advanced directives should not compel the physican to provide them, regardless if the patient needs them."

And also that nutrition and hydration which had NOT been considered medical treatment, are now considered medical treatment. Polite society considers food and water basic human care. No longer so in Florida.

In Florida basic human sustenance is now "medical treatment" and may be withdrawn at the discretion of the medical staff or by a Judge.

Not polite -- but murderous that turn of law. In Florida's new murderous regime of law, of convenient euthanasia your advance directive to keep you alive will be ignored -- that ignorance is also lawful. Yet some "friends" say-so that you did not wish to continue in your condition will be acted upon pronto.

Murder and lies of convenience in a new regime of medical terror.

That is -- if you do not want to lie about it, you'll call it what it is -- murder.

And it is fiendishly impolite.

680 posted on 06/21/2005 5:39:34 AM PDT by bvw
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