Terry Schiavo Report of Autopsy, Full Text as Released by Medical Examiner

Pinellas County Medical Examiner's Office via St. Petersburg Times ^ | June 13, 2005 | Jon R. Thogmartin, MD

[jess35]

Because it was not Terri speaking, it was an edited tape of Terri groaning loudly. It wasn't the type of "evidence" they were looking for. NO words were spoken.

http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C1049953760/E644265118/

Look for FoxNews video.

[FairOpinion]

So, is it your position that those who have an illness from which they won't recover, should be dehydrated to death?

People who won't recover from Parkinson's, MS, Down's Syndrome, stroke, etc. should just be killed? Why stop there, why don't we just kill anyone with any kind of chronic disease, like high blood pressure?

The point about Terri was that her real family loved her as she was and wanted to take care of her, and instead of allowing that, her husband was given assistance by the US courts, to kill her. There is MUCH MORE than reasonable doubt about Terri's wishes. So if we don't know what someone would have wanted, we should assume, she wanted to be killed brutally by dehydration?

[kozachka]

The fact remains that if you took out 75% of Einstein's itsy-bitsy brain, his brain function would still probably be better than both of ours put together.

First of all, his brain was not itsy-bitsy--perhaps even bigger than yours, but it's hard to tell without further testing.

Second, it depend which parts. Not all neurons are created equal........ If you removed his cerebral cortex, you'd be a hell of a lot smarter.

[FairOpinion]

Terri Schiavo's Family Responds to Medical Examiner's Report

"There is absolutely no evidence that Terri wanted to die of dehydration, or that she believed that that the level of one's disability gives anyone the moral and legal right to end another's life," Vitadamo (Terri's sister) said.

"Terri was dehydrated to death before our eyes. The moral shame of what happened is not erased because of Terri's level of disability," she added.

Vitadamo said that society has "lost our compassion for the disabled" by virtue of saying people who are blind or mentally disabled, like Terri, are better off dying.

[kozachka]

Basically, he just said she had water on the brain ("Hydrocephalus")which is what Doc Hammesfhar said years ago. A not uncommon condition that is very treatable, but her caregivers chose not to intervene.

Do you know even the first thing about hydrocephalus? Your post suggests not.

Hydrocephalus is merely a description of a pathologic change that occurs in the brain. "The term hydrocephalus is derived from the Greek words "hydro" meaning water and "cephalus" meaning head. As its name implies, it is a condition in which the primary characteristic is excessive accumulation of fluid in the brain. Although hydrocephalus was once known as "water on the brain," the "water" is actually cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) - a clear fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord"

Hydrocephalus is not more an adequate diagnosis than "headache". It does not tell us the cause, and without that we can't decide if we can treat.

Hydrocephalus can be congenital or acquired, obstructive or normal pressure.

Obstructive hydrocephalus, which is caused by a blockage of thef low of CSF, can be treated with shunts.

But, if you had read the report, or even my post, you would see that her actual diagnosis was "hydrocephalus ex vacuo". (And you would have found a detailed pathological description of the findings.) Hydrocephalus ex vacuo is not a pressure phenomenon. It signifies "compensatory ventricular expansion secondary to cerebral atrophy and shrinkage, for example, in Alzheimer's disease and in Pick's disease."

In other words, the brain dies and shrinks, and the fluid fills in the empty spaces. The hydrocephalus is a by-product of the brain destruction, not its cause.

So treating it would do no good.

Actually, in this condition, shunts carry a substantial risk of subdural hemorrhage if implanted. So they would do more harm than good.

But then, what do doctors know?

[Smartaleck]

"If I missed the credentials part where he was certified at some point in time to read cat scans, please let me know."

If you break your arm and your family physician explains what it indicates in the x-ray, are you going to argue he isn't a trained "radiologist" and incapable of making such an interpretation? Incapable of rendering an opinion of what he sees after seeing 1000's of the same previously?

[Smartaleck]

"Just that he wouldn't be very inquisitive about its provenance."

I like Hannity and have even defended him on occaision, but on this matter he's let it become too personal and it's affected his judgment. Some of his remarks are downright embarrassing.

[Diamond]

But a bigger tragedy is to make someone live in a way they would not want to live.

How about the State, in a civil proceeding, (not criminal) forcing someone to die in a way that they would not want to die?

It is my view that the State has no obligation or authority in the first place to carry out someone's death wish via a civil proceeding. That usurpation of power inexorably leads to involuntary killing, as history teaches. But maybe Henry Ford was right; history teaches us that history teaches us nothing.

Maybe God had bigger things for Terry in mind and the machine was keeping her from him. But I guess God would have killed her anyway, right.

A feeding tube is not really a machine; it has no moving parts. A tube that conveys food by gravity is an implement, a relatively simple device for performing work, not unlike, say, a spoon.

After pondering it for a while, I still have no idea what you mean by "God would have killed her anyway."

...when is the natural process of life and death allowed to take over.

I don't know - is starving a "natural process"? No one has any objection to allowing someone to die who is dying. What is objectionable is the act of starving someone to death who is not dying on the rationale that she has an incurable condition. I tell you, when the State gets involved in imposing its will to kill people in civil proceedings, and empowers doctors to kill people without any proceedings at all, you are in civilizational quicksand.

Cordially,

[commonerX]

I think that you read too much into the event around Terry's death. Impact on society and government? That this whole thing is going to make the courts kill people is absurd.
This story has been made into a public spectacle when it should have been just between the people directly involved. As I believe it should be in most all cases like this. You didn't know Terry and neither did I. You don't know that she would have wanted to live in such a state either, and the old saying to error on the side of life doesn't cut it in this case.
Living in a mental torture or death isn't much of an option, but I would take death. And I don't too many people that would choose living under Terry's condition and believe me I asked and haven't yet found one person who said they would.
Most people don't think the way you want them to about this.
Most people understand that there is a point at which there is no life even if the heart is still pumping away.
You will have to accept it or keep beating your head against a wall.

[cajungirl]

Husband is a pathologist and he said the dehydration would not have that big an effect on the brain mass. It was clear her brain was shrunk from the initial anoxia and that is what is not known , what caused the anoxia.

[Diamond]

That this whole thing is going to make the courts kill people is absurd.

Really? Have you ever heard of precedent? Have you ever heard of the court-sanctioned killing of people by doctors a/k/a Roe v Wade?

Most people don't think the way you want them to about this.
Most people understand that there is a point at which there is no life even if the heart is still pumping away.

Maybe you're right that most people don't think the way I do:

Reichsleiter Bouhler and Dr. med. Brandt are instructed to broaden the powers of physicians designated by name, who will decide whether those who have - as far as can be humanly determined - incurable illnesses can, after the most careful evaluation, be granted a mercy death.

/signed/ Adolf Hitler

Cordially,

[commonerX]

Everything that happens in life isn't a precedent for anything you think might happen.

I guess with that same thinking applying to everything, why bother living.

[wideminded]

Advice for those reading the autopsy report: In case you are curious about something in the report, don't go to a medical library and look up a book on autopsies. You will wish you had never done this.

[kpmom]

You forgot to include the first part of your cited text:

"The body attempts to maintain the levels of nutrients, ions, and gases at constant levels appropriate for the functioning of the body (homeostasis). Severe dehydration can have adverse affects on the brain such as cell
death and seizures which can lead to increased cell death in the brain. This may be due to a change in the ionic composition of the fluid surrounding brain cells (neurons) which causes neurons to be more 'active'than usual and more sensitive to stimuli."

[kozachka]

"The body attempts to maintain the levels of nutrients, ions, and gases at constant levels appropriate for the functioning of the body (homeostasis). Severe dehydration can have adverse affects on the brain such as cell death and seizures which can lead to increased cell death in the brain. This may be due to a change in the ionic composition of the fluid surrounding brain cells (neurons) which causes neurons to be more 'active'than usual and more sensitive to stimuli."

Yes, but these would be acute changes; the changes found at autopsy were chronic changes, as evidenced by the large amount of scar tissue and sparse neurons. Recent cell death would not have caused these sorts of changes.

In other words, the pronounced neuropathologic changes found at autopsy would not have been due to dehydration and ionic imbalance.

Or was that not the point you were trying to make?

[bjs1779]

If you break your arm and your family physician explains what it indicates in the x-ray, are you going to argue he isn't a trained "radiologist" and incapable of making such an interpretation? Incapable of rendering an opinion of what he sees after seeing 1000's of the same previously?

I know what you mean, and I almost agree with you. The problem I have with this case is that Dr. Maxfield was a trained radiologist and his testimony was discounted by the courts because he was not a "trained" neurologist.

[Diamond]

Everything that happens in life isn't a precedent for anything you think might happen.

These evils are not potential events; they have already occurred and are occurring again in a different form. Courts rely on precedents, at least to the extent that it suits them. If you think that courts and governments don't have great power and can have tremendous impact on society, think again

I guess with that same thinking applying to everything, why bother living.

The irony is that the mindset, "why bother living", which is opposite of my view, is precisely what did Schiavo in.

Cordially,

[commonerX]

What I am saying is just because you can draw a connection for a precendent out of a particular event doesn't mean that it will become the norm. Terry was dead long before they remove the any life support. The body can keep living for a period of time but that doesn't equate to living.

You can complain all you want but most people and apparently the courts as well can see the difference.

You can choose to live with that or beat your head against the wall complaining about it, your choice.

Right now most people make a living will if they feel strongly against life support measures.

You can always make a living will that says you are to be kept alive at all measures and all circumstances. You could even have it state, if the head is the only thing left intact then keep it alive, who knows maybe a body will become available some day.

[cycjec]

I'm afraid anteceecee is right. There most likely
are any number of dishonest death certificates
out there. We all have heard "Terri wasn't the
first" before.