Does Abortion Make Us Safe?: Freakonomics and Reality

Breakpoint with Charles Colson ^ | June 10, 2005 | Mark Earley

[Mr. Silverback]

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[GOPJ]

I don't agree with Levitt -- I believe welfare reform was the change that brought down crime. Early aborotions were mainly done on middle class women. Levitt, unlike Gladwell, seems to do sloopy, jump to conclusions type research.

[GOPJ]

II don't agree with Levitt -- I believe welfare reform was the change that brought down crime. Early abortions were mainly done on middle class women. Levitt, unlike Gladwell, seems to do "sloppy, jump to conclusions" type research. His stuff on the man who wrote More guns, less crime" was the same - sloppy ad hominem crap.

[gregwest]

Also, with mandatory sentencing and "three-strikes" laws, the prison population in the US exploded during the time period he indicated. A lot of the bad guys are just in jail now instead of repeat offending.

[marty60]

He read the Cliff's notes version of Mein Kampf. When he gets around to reading the full test he'll become clearer on his final solutions.

[Mamzelle]

You don't have to be anti-child or pro-abort to acknowledge the cruel logic of Levitt's (who happens to be brilliant on other fronts) assertions.

While I hope a reasonable refutation can be developed, I fear it won't wash. It is better to make the moral argument against this newest apologia of abortion...or, perhaps better yet, to use it as a reproach.

[marty60]

The Aztecs were brought down inpart by their rituals of Sacrificing members of the community to solve problem. Blood was running in the "streets" until they finally figure out that the problems were not going away. But by that time they were so decimated, the conquerers just walked in and took over. (so to speak)

[advance_copy]

Abortion was illegal in the 1950s. You never locked your door or your car, and kids weren't shooting each other in schools.

[wideawake]

You are correct.

The first cohort of legally aborted children was primarily the children of middle-class whites. In the mid-70s there was a welfare incentive not to abort in order to get benefits and there was a incentive among white women in the free-love 70s to abort.

Planned parenthood always pushed abortion the hardest in the inner cities, but it did not start gaining traction until the late 70s/early 80s when abortions became cheaper and more available through social programs the relationship switched.

Nowadays, middle class white women are desperate to conceive since they've avoided fertilizing a single egg from puberty to age 35, while black women are being pressured into cheap abortions by affluent white social workers.

[frogjerk]

The availability of legal abortion helped convince young men that they no longer had a responsibility to the women they had impregnated. The result was a rise in out-of-wedlock births which, unlike abortion, are clearly linked to the crime rate.

Ping!

CULTURE OF DEATH: "Responsibility, what's that?"

[GOPJ]

OK, I'm flat out impressed. You're right on every count.

The first cohort of legally aborted children was primarily the children of middle-class whites. In the mid-70s there was a welfare incentive not to abort in order to get benefits and there was a incentive among white women in the free-love 70s to abort.

Planned parenthood always pushed abortion the hardest in the inner cities, but it did not start gaining traction until the late 70s/early 80s when abortions became cheaper and more available through social programs the relationship switched.

Nowadays, middle class white women are desperate to conceive since they've avoided fertilizing a single egg from puberty to age 35, while black women are being pressured into cheap abortions by affluent white social workers.

[monday]

"The homicide rates for 25-year-olds began falling in 1981!"

The peak of the post war baby boom was 1960. Ever since 1960 birth rates have declined each year. Ever since 1981 when those kids born in 1960 turned 21 crime rates have gone down. It's all demographics. Young people commit most crime and there are less young people now then there used to be. All very simple.

[Mr. Silverback]

There are a lot of folks in econ who will just throw out any darn thing that matches their assumptions. I think in the back of their mind they know that most folks won't know enough about econ to dispute their "findings."

[Mr. Silverback]

You don't have to be anti-child or pro-abort to acknowledge the cruel logic of Levitt's (who happens to be brilliant on other fronts) assertions. While I hope a reasonable refutation can be developed, I fear it won't wash. It is better to make the moral argument against this newest apologia of abortion...or, perhaps better yet, to use it as a reproach.

You didn't read the whole article. There's a very effective refutation of Levitt in the second half. For example, if Levitt wants to say Roe vs. Wade is keeping the streets safe, he needs to explain why the homicide rate among 25 year olds began falling in 1981, when the first abortion victims would have been eight years old.

[Mr. Silverback]

Yep. Levitt's theories are bunk-a-rific.

[sr4402]

I don't agree either. Just because you eliminate human beings doesn't mean you are reducing sin (criminal activity). Sin usually rears it's ugly head somewhere else.

The crime rate went way down in New York City because the laws got enforced once Rudy Guiliani became Mayor. He simply enforced the laws on the books. He pushed for law enforcement on every block, from jaywalking to homicide, he pushed for all the laws to be enforced. The result was that criminals didn't have fertile grounds like they did under the so called "Democratic Mayors".

The moral of the story, is that if you are a major metropolitan city and you want to break the crime rates, vote in a Republican former prosecutor as your mayor. Democrats will just let things slide.

[kpp_kpp]

I don't believe Colson is trying to explain the drop in crime, just trying to convey that Levitt is not correct.

I agree there is a much bigger picture to look at.

[bukkdems]

As a pro-choice Republican, I have skirmished with adversaries on this forum who cite bogus claims about child abuse increasing over the past 35 years due to the availability of abortion. In fact, the opposite is true and this barometer is more closely tied to abortion than the general crime rate.

Also, on the subject of eugenics, my criticism of US policy is that we practice reverse eugenics.