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Qatar plans $15 bln Airbus, Boeing deal
Reuters ^
| June 13, 2005
Posted on 06/13/2005 4:31:35 AM PDT by neutrality
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I believe this is the first contest between the 787 and A350 Airbus has won this year.
To: neutrality
Now, lets see if Airbus can actually deliver the planes, and whether they had to go so far under cost to seal the deal that they can't make a profit on the sale.
And that might depend on whether they can get throwaway loans from their governmental sponsors in Europe.
To: John Valentine
Yes, the 787 has something like 267 confirmed orders, the A350 was at like 10 or so.
3
posted on
06/13/2005 5:28:18 AM PDT
by
delapaz
(http://www.nixguy.com)
To: delapaz
How many confirmed orders does Airbus need to start up the production line?
4
posted on
06/13/2005 5:29:30 AM PDT
by
Guillermo
(42% of suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi and Bush continues to lick their boots)
To: delapaz
Yes, the 787 has something like 267 confirmed orders, the A350 was at like 10 or so. I think you're thinking about the A380 with only ten orders, not the A350. Nobody is worried to much about A350 sales, the A380 is the big one.
To: Guillermo
They say 100. I don't believe this is a real order for Airbus. It is strictly a PR move. The 350 is DOA. It will never be built in it current form. Boeing says it is currently negotiating to sell 426 more 787's. With its new manufacturing techniques, it seems that Boeing is just an assembler of planes and will be able to expand production exponentially.
Look for a major shakeup at Airbus. The French and the Germans are no longer playing nice. They will have to get a Swede to run the place. Also, the coming losses are going to be staggering. Their mainstay 330 has been obsoleted. Once they get through the backlog there's going to be alot of idle Frenchmen.
6
posted on
06/13/2005 5:37:51 AM PDT
by
appeal2
To: appeal2
I think Qatar Airways (QR) better hope Airbus has the money to develop the A350-9. Otherwise, QR could end up buying a lot more 777's than they imagined originally.
To: delapaz
60 787's would of cost them something like $7.2 billion by my math. That A350 is a pricey sucker.
To: Hillarys Gate Cult
I think you're thinking about the A380 with only ten orders, not the A350. You've got it backwards. The A380 is the super jumbo and has around 265 orders while until today the A350 only had 10 orders. Now add another 60 for Qatar.
9
posted on
06/13/2005 12:13:25 PM PDT
by
COEXERJ145
(Just Blame President Bush For Everything, It Is Easier Than Using Your Brain)
To: neutrality
I believe this is the first contest between the 787 and A350 Airbus has won this year. The only real reason the A350 won is because Emirates will order it sooner or later. Qatar is basically doing whatever Emirates does. Emirates orders the A380, so does Qatar. Emirates (will soon) order the A350, Qatar orders them too. Emirates flies the 777-200/300, Qatar orders some as well.
10
posted on
06/13/2005 12:16:14 PM PDT
by
COEXERJ145
(Just Blame President Bush For Everything, It Is Easier Than Using Your Brain)
To: COEXERJ145
I think Qatar has an all Airbus fleet, so at least we got our foot in the door with the 777. $4-5 billion isn't chump change.
To: COEXERJ145; RayChuang88
Interesting perspective, I don't think I disagree. As I suspected though, Q went with Airbus and the 350. The only real surprise, well 2 of them, is that they also ordered some Boeings but NOT the 787, passing up 2008 delivery slots to wait 5 long years for the 350. Obviously, size trumps all in this regional market.
Now, here's the kicker...what are they going to do with all these planes? I believe this 'order' now puts their fleet totals larger than some major Asian carriers with established major hubs, are they going to replace their current Airbuses with the 777 and then the 350? Who needs to fly to Qatar, anyway (or to Dubai, for that matter)? It seems all they do is transfer people from one side of the planet to the other, with a stop in the Gulf. With Boeing's new 777/787 long range jets, it seems other airlines can do the same, without the stop, so is Q's market really that strong, long term?
Nominally, I would suspect Q to cancel some of these planes, like the 777 since they are all AB, but if they do that they are not getting any new planes for quite some time. What are they really trying to do?
To: COEXERJ145
One other thing, since Emirates is likely to go with the 350 as well, I think Q was foolish to pass up 2008 deliveries with the 787 and get a 2 year head start on their rival, since the 787 mostly destroys the 340's they currently both have. Now, Emirates has that opportunity. Let's see if they take advantage of it.
To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
The big problem for Airbus (quite literally) is that A380 development costs and development delays could suck up the monetary reserves of EADS very quickly, and Airbus might NOT have enough money to build the A350 for quite some time. Qatar Airways and Emirates Airways could end up waiting until 2013 or later for the first deliveries, while Boeing could clean up with every other airline in the Middle East with the 787-9 and (possibly) stretched 787-10 models! I can just see EgyptAir, El Al, Royal Jordanian Airways, Saudi Arabian Airlines and Oman Air all buying the 787-9 and the future 787-10 model and they'll all be in service by the time the first A350 deliveries commence!
To: Righty_McRight
I think Qatar has an all Airbus fleet, so at least we got our foot in the door with the 777. $4-5 billion isn't chump change. Yep, at this time Qatar has an all Airbus fleet.
15
posted on
06/13/2005 3:06:10 PM PDT
by
COEXERJ145
(Just Blame President Bush For Everything, It Is Easier Than Using Your Brain)
To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
It is also possible that some of Qatar's existing A330 orders are being converted to A350 orders. Airbus doesn't publicly announce canceled orders and announces converted orders as "new".
16
posted on
06/13/2005 3:08:53 PM PDT
by
COEXERJ145
(Just Blame President Bush For Everything, It Is Easier Than Using Your Brain)
To: RayChuang88
That begs the question, then why is Qatar going for the 350? Did they really get them THAT cheap?
To: RayChuang88
Wow
every time i read this here posts here i have to think about the date when Airbus will have to announce that the company is bankrupt.
Until that day you can read the financial news. Airbus has the best 1Q in the history of that company and because of Airbus the profit of EADS was three times higher than the year before.
Both companies will survive and it is not clear which one will be the market leader and i believe that they will have more or less equal market shares because competition is what the airlines want and benefit from.
18
posted on
06/14/2005 2:55:28 AM PDT
by
stefan10
To: Guillermo
Not as many as Boeing thanks to all that government aid Airbus receives. If they had to compete in a fully free market without subsidies from European governments, their plight would be much worse.
19
posted on
06/14/2005 2:57:16 AM PDT
by
twntaipan
( I would sooner trust the North Koreans to keep their word than the Democrats --- Ann Coulter)
To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
They probably did get them for cheap--usually launch customers for a new airliner usually gets substantial discounts.
By the way, ALAFCO, the Kuwaiti aircraft leasing company, has ordered 12 A350-800's with an option for 12 more. This means Kuwaiti Airways will likely get the A350-800 to replace their current widebody fleet.
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