Airbus says A350 ready to take on 787 (Second version will challenge 777, P-I told)

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER ^ | Friday, June 3, 2005 | JAMES WALLACE

[anonymoussierra]

thank you

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Creak and groan ? Don't like the engine sounds ? Trying flying out of Mpls on NW's DC-10s. They have a grunt that's all their own.

[John Valentine]

Don't blame the messenger, man! I'm not saying these things bother me or even if I have heard them,, only that I have had these complaints made to me numerous times. As for the DC-10, I haven't been on one in years. I didn't even know that any were still flying.

[PAR35]

Leahy said at least four airlines will announce orders

I'll bet that will include the 'orders' that are part of Airbus's 'investment' in AmericaWest/USAir.

[ARCADIA]

As for it being a deathtrap? Please, you are being a bit hysterical.

How many airports will be able to receive it in the US? If it is only a handful then there will be no place to divert these things to in the event of a problem. You may consider that a safe proposition, I'll consider it a disaster waiting to happen. Enjoy your romantic bliss with this french aircrap.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Thats what I thought, the oldest 777 first revenue flight with United was June 7 1995.
That makes the oldest 777 only 10 years old, unless those planes already have so many flight cycles on it.
If Boeing goes with the 747 Advanced, I don't think we will see a stretched 777, because the 777 is only slightly smaller in size compared to the 747.

[Larry Lucido]

Well, older than the 777-300ER. They seem to want a single model type for all its large planes.

That makes sense. The replaced ones end up in a "slightly-used 777" sales lot.

[RayChuang88]

Here's the bad news for Airbus though: additional changes to the design of the A350 could substantially drive up the cost of development. Not only will the current A350 design sport a new wing design, GENx or Trent 1000 derivative engines, and a new tail design, but also will switch to ultra-light aluminum-lithium alloys for the fuselage structure and will switch to semi-bleedless (e.g., less bleed air from the engines to drive power accessories in the plane) operation, too. We may be seeing a project that could end up costing Airbus €6 billion (US$7.33 billion at current exchange ranges), something that EADS shareholders could revolt over especially given the substantial overrun cost of the A380 program.

[RayChuang88]

Boeing does not want to make the 787-9 too big or it would be competing against its 300-seat 777-200.

The current rumors coming out of Boeing is that the company is looking at de-emphasizing the 777-200A/ER models in favor of more 777-200LR and 777-300ER sales. This will allow Boeing to stretch the 787 design even further than the the 787-9 design; the result--using an uprated version of the GENx or Trent 1000 engine--could be a plane that seats almost the same as the 777-200ER but will burn less fuel per passenger and probably have a range as far as 8,000 nautical miles. Of course, the big advantage of the 787 design--namely the improved cabin pressurization system that allows for the equivalent of 6,000 feet altitude at all times--will be part of this extra-stretched 787.

[Righty_McRight]

Heh, well they should of decided on that before they lost the Emirates order.

[Central Scrutiniser]

Igorance on your part, and a real need to rip the French. Its made with parts from all of the world, just assembled in France.

I'll just assume you know nothing about aviation, which is evident.

[ARCADIA]

I do not need to know anything about aviation to know that I will do my best to avoid this aircraft.

[Central Scrutiniser]

Better not get on any Boeing planes with any parts not made in the USA. Cause you will never fly. I fly Airbus all the time, good planes, I'll look for you next time I fly overhead.

[filbert]

Are you perhaps confusing the Airbus 350 with the 380? the 350 is AI's (self-described) 767-killer and the 380 is the megajumbo.

[Paleo Conservative]

Here's the bad news for Airbus

......

but also will switch to ultra-light aluminum-lithium alloys for the fuselage structure

But arent't those same allows also available to Boeing to use on other models like the 747 Advanced? Isn't it the aluminum producers that have incurred the costs of developing those alloys and quantifying their physical characteristics? In a lot of cases wouldn't the parts made of these alloys, especially skin panels fit into the same places as the older parts they replace?

[RayChuang88]

But arent't those same allows also available to Boeing to use on other models like the 747 Advanced? Isn't it the aluminum producers that have incurred the costs of developing those alloys and quantifying their physical characteristics? In a lot of cases wouldn't the parts made of these alloys, especially skin panels fit into the same places as the older parts they replace?

Boeing has looked at using aluminum-lithium alloys in the past but has shelved the idea for new versions of their older airliners due to the need to change the structural design (a very expensive proposition) to accommodate the metallurgical aspects of Al-Li alloys. I believe that the 787 will use Al-Li alloys along with composite materials, but then the 787 was designed from scratch to use such materials.

That's why Airbus better be careful with the A350 design. If they design a new fuselage to take advantage of Al-Li alloys the development costs will literally soar through the roof and then some--pun intended! Airbus can't afford such extreme expenditures given the cost overruns for the A380 project already.

[Brofholdonow]

As with all international duty Airbus equipment: warmed-over 300 series, rushed out, expanded and stretched, then delayed and over-budgeted. The only reason most of them sell is because they are sold at loss prices subsidized by European socialist make work governments.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

DC-10s live at Mpls/St. Paul and Memphis.

[Paleo Conservative]

Here's the bad news for Airbus though: additional changes to the design of the A350 could substantially drive up the cost of development.

........

and will switch to semi-bleedless (e.g., less bleed air from the engines to drive power accessories in the plane) operation, too.

Why semi bleedless? If they're talking of spending over $7 billion why not go fully bleedless. That would save more weight and have more performance. At this point, what benefits does Airbus get from building a derivative? The fuselage while having the same external dimensions will be different internally than their A300/A310/A330/A340. About the only thing that might be unchanged is the landing gear.

[Paleo Conservative]

Boeing has looked at using aluminum-lithium alloys in the past but has shelved the idea for new versions of their older airliners due to the need to change the structural design (a very expensive proposition) to accommodate the metallurgical aspects of Al-Li alloys.

So are those alloys prone to corrosion when they come in contact with dissimilar metal parts? So why not use GLARE instead?