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CAFTA is the answer to China's growing power
The Seattle Times ^ | May 24, 2005 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 05/24/2005 7:08:18 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

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To: Willie Green
None of those things has anything to do with whether CAFTA passes or does not.

We really need to focus on what CAFTA will do and debate that.

321 posted on 05/24/2005 7:16:31 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
Has this not been made clear to you yet?

Yes and apparently you're not reading the answers because it was pointed out to you several times that without such an agreement a company who relocated to Central America then flooded our market with their products faced the possibility of tariffs. Maybe it's not happening at the moment but it could in the future.

Not so with CAFTA, he can move down there, flood our markets and the US government says nothing to worry about, go for it, even at the expense of domestic companies and workers.

322 posted on 05/24/2005 7:18:46 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Dog Gone
We really need to focus on what CAFTA will do and debate that.

"We are infinitely better off without treaties of commerce with any nation."

--Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1815.


323 posted on 05/24/2005 7:22:04 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!!)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Okay, since CAFTA removes the tariffs on US exports, what you're really worried about is the fact that it might prevent us from imposing tariffs on their imports in the future, even though we're not doing so now.

Perhaps you're not aware that we can withdraw from CAFTA upon six months notice if we want to. Does that ease your concerns?

324 posted on 05/24/2005 7:22:36 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Willie Green

Many of the Founding Fathers of this country were protectionists, something the revisionist Free Traders would rather not talk about.


325 posted on 05/24/2005 7:23:51 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Willie Green
Hey Willie! Welcome back!
326 posted on 05/24/2005 7:23:55 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Willie Green

Oh well, that settles that. The world hasn't changed in the least since then.


327 posted on 05/24/2005 7:23:58 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Some of the Founding Fathers were slave-owners also.


328 posted on 05/24/2005 7:24:36 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: wayoverontheright
For sure, China does not want us to sign CAFTA, as good a reason as any to move it forward.

China does not want AIDS, a good reason for us to have more of it.

329 posted on 05/24/2005 7:25:55 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: Dog Gone

For all the tariffs to be removed, it will take 20 years.


330 posted on 05/24/2005 7:27:47 PM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Many of the Founding Fathers of this country were protectionists, something the revisionist Free Traders would rather not talk about.

The Constitution doesn't provide for the Air Force. Therefore they didn't want one, and it's unconstitutional for us to have one.

331 posted on 05/24/2005 7:28:32 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: jpsb
Bump at least someone in the free trade camp is admitting that our trade policies have caused this massive lost of jobs and wealth in the usa mostly to the benefit of Communist China. Now they are using the threat that THEIR POLICIES CREATED to try to scare us into more of the same.

Good point.

332 posted on 05/24/2005 7:28:48 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: Dog Gone
Perhaps you're not aware that we can withdraw from CAFTA upon six months notice if we want to.

Do you really believe that would happen? NAFTA's been a disaster but it's full steam ahead. It's far easier to stop a law from being enacted than it is rescinding one that's in place. That's why Congress needs to stop CAFTA in its tracks now.

333 posted on 05/24/2005 7:29:02 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

You gave an excellent example of Reagan and Harley Davidson. Some people are in a state of denial.


334 posted on 05/24/2005 7:30:09 PM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: wayoverontheright
The bureacracy in place now to implement and enforce tariffs is not FREE to the American taxpayer,

Every tax requires some expense. Are you proposing removing all taxes and dissolving the state?

335 posted on 05/24/2005 7:31:58 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: Dog Gone
Willie is a bit confused about economics.

He thinks foreign companies raising our steel prices is a bad thing.

To: Toddsterpatriot
Same as an oil shortage.
Prices skyrocket, commerce nosedives.
Ripples throughout our economy, nobody's immune.

34 posted on 03/09/2002 3:06:16 PM CST by Willie Green

But he thinks if we raise our steel prices with tariffs it's a good thing.

Like I said, confused.

336 posted on 05/24/2005 7:32:05 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Some of the Founding Fathers were slave-owners also.

Say what you want but they had good reasons for supporting protectionism and their policies worked.

337 posted on 05/24/2005 7:33:36 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: All; harpseal
I remember this list from Harpseal on all of this. RIP, Harpseal, we could use you down here with the Free Trade Uber Alles Crowd.

First the solution.

In no particular order of importance.

1. Get rid of government subsidies for offshore investment of US companies. OPIC is the first such program which should go but support of World Bank programs that subsidize the outflow of Capital would be another.

2. Use tariffs on those nations which are engaged in unfair trade practices such as currency manipulation (China and India for example), those nations which refuse to open their markets to US products (China for example with its 50% tariffs on US consumer goods and non tariff barriers), those nations that subsidize competition to American Industry (airbus for example) and those nations which have slave conditions for their workers.

3. Use tariffs and other means to prevent the relocation of jobs offshore that are essential to the national defense. If necessary take control of the company seeking to export vital technology or industry by means of eminent domain (No I do not like this last option and I will only defend its use as an absolute last resort like say in the case of rare earth magnets essential to smart bomb technology).

4. An immediate end to guest worker programs. If people wish to come to the USA to work and make a life let them immigrate according to the rules.

5 Provide economic development zones where the corporate income tax is zero for operations within these zones. In order to operate in this zone a company must agree to only purchase American components if available and employ only American citizens or legal immigrants in these operations. These economic development zones shall be eventually be expanded to include every bit of every state once the benefits are shown I would like them to be totally implemented immediately but I realize4 that may be overreaching.

6. Scale back unnecessary regulation including the tort system. Institute a cap on punitive damages, limits on class action suits, and limits on liability to the actual percentage of liability with no plaintiff able to collect if said plaintiff was involved in the commission of a felony at the time of the alleged tort or was more than 49% negligent in the alleged tort. Note that the loser in a frivolous lawsuit shall pay the attorney fees of the winner. There are many other regulatory structures that also need to be included that need to be included such as repealing the Family leave mandate, getting rid of OSHA etc.

7. Increase the domestic content in purchases by the Department of defense and give absolute preference in non-domestic content to proven allies of the USA over say the French or Germans. The only reason any content for DOD purchase may come from non US allies is that content is not available elsewhere and is essential.

8. Do not allow expense involved in moving operations overseas to be included in business expenses under the IRS code.

9. Prosecute for perjury anyone who has made a false statement in order to employ an H1B or L1 visa worker. I will be lenient on the actual perjurer if he/she was ordered to make this false statement and he/she provides testimony to aid in the conviction of the person ordering the perjury. Just because a person is a CEO does not give them a pass on criminal behavior.

10. Prosecute anyone who orders the transfer of vital defense technology or funds a R&D project that could be of use to our military overseas except to strong allies of the USA. Make the necessary enhancements to our espionage laws so that continued support or funding of any R&D in a nation whose government has threatened the USA is guilty of espionage. The UK and Australia come to mind as meeting these criteria for being eligible for transfer of technology first. There will be other nations and a gradation of what can be transferred to which specific nation. Under no circumstances may technology be transferred to any nation whose government has threatened the USA within five years without a complete change of government or specific exemption from Congress and the administration.

11. Deport all illegal aliens immediately and take measures that prevent the entry of any more illegal aliens. Fine all companies knowingly employing illegal aliens Criminal sanctions should be imposed on anyone helping an illegal alien stay in the USA in violation of our laws.

12. Decrease the punishing levels of taxation on companies and eliminate the double taxation on corporate dividends. See effects of item 5 for how minimal this will be if item 5 covers the entire USA. Eliminate all IRS provisions that inhibit free use of independent contractors by businesses for example section 1706.

13. Eliminate the minimum wage so that the worker can be paid based on productivity. Overtime compensation will remain the same but instead of 150% of the "wage" the worker would receive 150% of the production pay. If one through 13 are enacted # 14 becomes an irrelevancy as no one will be working for that low a wage.

 

 

We have a modification to the plan in item 3. Before including any further modifications in this plan I am getting the approval of many who have signed on and RDB3 was instumental in hammering out this plan with me. We each came from different perspectives of how to solve teh problem and tried to come up with something we could build a consensus arround.

The Change is in item point 3 and has to do with our national defense.

3. Use tariffs and other means to prevent the relocation of jobs offshore that are essential to the national defense. If necessary take control of the company seeking to export vital technology or industry by means of eminent domain (No I do not like this last option and I will only defend its use as an absolute last resort like say in the case of rare earth magnets essential to smart bomb technology). Provide a hardened, widely distributed infrastructure to supply all that is needed for our military units and civil defense that can be continued to be deployed in the event of any military attack.

This is already on my profile and will be included in all future posts of this plan.

 


338 posted on 05/24/2005 7:34:16 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: texastoo

I don't know if that's true, but 80% of them would be eliminated immediately. The tariffs on our agricultural exports are phased out in order to not wipe out the family farmer in Central America overnight.


339 posted on 05/24/2005 7:34:57 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Willie Green

Whoa, welcome back!!! Missed your posts.


340 posted on 05/24/2005 7:35:56 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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