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Tax Reform Panel Picks Apart FairTax Proposal
Tax Analyists ^ | 5/12/2005

Posted on 05/12/2005 7:46:54 PM PDT by Your Nightmare

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To: justshutupandtakeit
Foreign products pay the same sales taxes when sold here. And the other taxes paid are HIGHER than here. Why do you think Europe is in economic doldrums and has unemployment rates over 10%? Its version of the FT (VAT) does not help either.

Fair Taxers really overblow the difference between them and a VAT. Both are really close cousins.

1,001 posted on 05/23/2005 8:36:02 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: phil_will1

You are confusing general taxation, business license fees and income taxation. Only Factors of Production have a cost to a business. But you are claiming IT is a tax on external economies, general social conditions, etc. If that were true there would be no reason to be opposed to it since we do live in a stable society with stable money and the protection of law.

On the other hand I see it as more of a tool to redistribute income which is not easily done via the other taxes.

And you are NOT "paying for an opportunity to earn an income" anyway that is a licensing fee or a business permit fee. There is NO tax unless a PROFIT is earned thus the IT has nothing to do with "opportunity."


1,002 posted on 05/23/2005 8:39:41 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Bigun

So someone else took over your name and wrote those remarks disparaging the theories economists have developed over the years?

FTers haven't even comprehended the basics of price theory and their posts show a great lack of understanding of economics and finance. Even the most fundamental aspects of economic life such as revenues, profits, after-tax income, and costs have no role in their thinking. Even the idea of a Factor of Production has some sputtering helplessly.

Obviously if people justshut... I would have no one to talk to :^( Hence it is ironic.

Yeah us types who actually have some knowledge and training in economics are "another matter entirely" since we are not clueless about these issues and can differentiate between reality and rhetoric, and probable results and wishful thinking.


1,003 posted on 05/23/2005 8:47:03 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Always Right

Yep.


1,004 posted on 05/23/2005 8:48:27 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; ancient_geezer; phil_will1
Our income tax system has no effect upon pricing and thus is not disadvantegous wrt the rest of the world.

Can you believe this?

1,005 posted on 05/23/2005 9:26:56 AM PDT by Principled
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To: Principled

YOur inability to understand even the most basic elements of microeconomics does not make them false.


1,006 posted on 05/23/2005 9:48:21 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Principled
Can you believe this?

Sounds like something straight out of the Patrice Lamumba School of Economics to me!

1,007 posted on 05/23/2005 9:52:57 AM PDT by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
So someone else took over your name and wrote those remarks disparaging the theories economists have developed over the years?

Nope! Nor did I disparage them! I said, and stand by, that the VAST majority does not CARE anything about such theories. But you already KNEW that didn't you?

1,008 posted on 05/23/2005 9:57:07 AM PDT by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: Bigun

It is lack of awareness of theory and inability to understand it which is important not lack of caring which is essentially meaningless. No one who lacks understanding of economics can understand taxation.


1,009 posted on 05/23/2005 9:59:17 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Principled
Can you believe this?

Well it is the truth. I don't factor in my income tax into my prices because it is impossible to know ahead of time. I work to maximize profits by offering products at a competitive price while keeping my costs down. Maximizing profits will cause my income taxes to go up, but I do not charge my customers more because I am now making more money.

1,010 posted on 05/23/2005 10:03:51 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: justshutupandtakeit
It is lack of awareness of theory and inability to understand it which is important not lack of caring which is essentially meaningless. No one who lacks understanding of economics can understand taxation.

Yeah! I know! The great unwashed is just plain STUPID and cannot understand anything without the aid of some elitist snob to explain it to them! That is, in fact, what has brought us to the point at which we find ourselves today!

Even the kid down on the corner, who has never seen an economics text book, knows that in order for him to make a profit he MUST sell his lemonade!

1,011 posted on 05/23/2005 10:11:52 AM PDT by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: Always Right
I don't factor in my income tax into my prices because it is impossible to know ahead of time. I work to maximize profits by offering products at a competitive price while keeping my costs down. Maximizing profits will cause my income taxes to go up, but I do not charge my customers more because I am now making more money.

Ridiculous. Even if you don't explicitly factor those taxes in, you have to charge enough so that your after-tax profits are enough to justify the investment of time and money into your business. Just because you're not doing it consciously doesn't mean you're not doing it.

1,012 posted on 05/23/2005 10:17:33 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -- Alexander Hamilton)
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To: Bigun

Ignorance is not stupidity. People are ignorant of things they have not studied or learned. I am ignorant of the techniques necessary to fix my LeSabre but far from stupid.

Economics is (like statistics) one of the most difficult courses of study outside of the physical sciences. And it is not called the "dismal science" for nothing.

Ignorance of economic principles allows the politicians to claim to be "soaking the rich" with their tax policies and to pass laws which are certain to fail. Knowledge of economics has not gotten us into the situation we are in. You have it assbackwards.


1,013 posted on 05/23/2005 10:20:42 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: kevkrom

Another who doesn't understand price theory shows up.


1,014 posted on 05/23/2005 10:21:52 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Another who doesn't understand price theory shows up.
None of them seem to. How else could you believe that producer prices would drop 20-30% while everyone gets a 20-30% increase in take-home pay? Pure fantasy born of ignorance.
1,015 posted on 05/23/2005 10:25:51 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Another who doesn't understand price theory shows up.

Yep! Only YOU and your Kenesian cronies have the ability to understand anything right?

Igonrance is correctable STUPID is forever!

1,016 posted on 05/23/2005 10:26:04 AM PDT by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Another who doesn't understand price theory shows up.

Theory, schmeory. Tell me what will happen if his business does not clear enough after-tax profits to justify the investment of time and/or money. (Hint: unless it's a "vanity" business or hobby, the business will fold.)

1,017 posted on 05/23/2005 10:30:54 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -- Alexander Hamilton)
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To: kevkrom
Tell me what will happen if his business does not clear enough after-tax profits to justify the investment of time and/or money.

This is exactly the point I made earlier, and he said, well, not all business fits into the Theory of Perfect Competition so I guess it's possible for you...

Of course I'm no different than the overwhelming majority of other small businesses in that respect.

But just above he said, get this, that income taxes are not a cost, do not affect prices, and for these reasons the income tax is not a disadvatage to our exports...

lol

1,018 posted on 05/23/2005 10:36:24 AM PDT by Principled
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To: kevkrom; justshutupandtakeit
Theory, schmeory. Tell me what will happen if his business does not clear enough after-tax profits to justify the investment of time and/or money. (Hint: unless it's a "vanity" business or hobby, the business will fold.)
The business will fold because it's not making enough profits!?! More FairTax Economics...
1,019 posted on 05/23/2005 10:43:41 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

Get back to me when you look up the phrase "time value of money".


1,020 posted on 05/23/2005 10:45:08 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -- Alexander Hamilton)
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