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Now evolving in biology classes: a testier climate - students question evolution
Christian Science Monitor ^ | May 3, 2005 | G. Jeffrey MacDonald

Posted on 05/03/2005 2:12:35 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: bobdsmith

I was not aware of this. Wikipedia disputes it.

Most are sterile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tion


341 posted on 05/03/2005 3:21:08 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha
Seems to be different for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger>Liger

"Male ligers are sterile. Female ligers are often fertile and can be mated to a tiger resulting in ti-liger offspring or to a lion resulting in li-liger offspring."

Interesting

342 posted on 05/03/2005 3:23:09 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: From many - one.
That which cannot interbreed is a species.

In layman's terms - yes. In strict scientific terms, its not the complete picture. Ring species and asexual organisms both blow huge holes in that simplistic definition.

343 posted on 05/03/2005 3:24:00 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: bobdsmith
oops that link should be Liger
344 posted on 05/03/2005 3:24:06 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: bobdsmith

I was just reading that.

What a curious combination of cat-like critters! (After the fist two, I just had to... I'm sorry. I really am!)


345 posted on 05/03/2005 3:26:11 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: JeffAtlanta
So scientists cant define what a species is, yet claim speciation occurs. Fascinating.

JM
346 posted on 05/03/2005 3:26:13 PM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM

Why should they be consistant? It's THEIR rules.


347 posted on 05/03/2005 3:27:48 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: JeffAtlanta
This is a lay group.

For me the idea is not to blow away non specialists, show off my knowledge or make the discussion unnecessarily complex.
348 posted on 05/03/2005 3:27:51 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: MacDorcha
All canines are the same if they can breed and haev viable offspring.

So can a great dane / chihuahua mix survive? If not, then they are separate species by your definition.

349 posted on 05/03/2005 3:29:29 PM PDT by narby
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To: JohnnyM

"So scientists cant define what a species is, yet claim speciation occurs. Fascinating."

They also claim to have categorised most of life on Earth into species. Facinating.


350 posted on 05/03/2005 3:30:33 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: narby

This must have been tried surely. If only for a laugh


351 posted on 05/03/2005 3:31:50 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: JohnnyM

There are differences in how we classify non-sexually reproducing organisms.

Obviously we can't talk about the ability to interbreed (although there are some fascinating facts in this area)

We can, clearly, say that if two populations of sexually reproducing organisms cannot breed in nature, they are different species.


352 posted on 05/03/2005 3:33:13 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.
For me the idea is not to blow away non specialists, show off my knowledge or make the discussion unnecessarily complex.

It's not making it overly complex. We are talking about speciation, and claiming that the ability to interbreed is the criteria for speciation is false and undermines your argument.

This is a very important point and if it is pushed as fact, creationists will beat you over the head with it because it makes their case better and undermines evolution.

353 posted on 05/03/2005 3:33:24 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: narby

"So can a great dane / chihuahua mix survive?"

Actually, yes, they can.

If you let dogs roam the planet as they may, in a matter of years we would haev "true dog" again. And again, in a matterof years, one could breed them by their atributes/abilities to fit the needs of their area.

Yorkshire terriers and poodles did not roam the earth as wild animals. They were bred into existance by a guiding hand. A hand with foresight and intellegence.


354 posted on 05/03/2005 3:34:35 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: narby
lol http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1384379/posts#17

The topic is relevant too

355 posted on 05/03/2005 3:36:14 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: MacDorcha

"Actually, yes, they can.

If you let dogs roam the planet as they may, in a matter of years we would haev "true dog" again."

Sorry I can't bear but ask...
have you proven this in the lab


356 posted on 05/03/2005 3:38:09 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: JohnnyM
So scientists cant define what a species is, yet claim speciation occurs. Fascinating.

A "species" is just an arbitrary grouping of similar organisms. The point is that there is no "magic boundary" to seperate populations into species.

This fact doesn't undermine evolution but instead strengthens it as it demonstrates that the creationist argument that "one kind cannot become another kind" is a moot point since there really is no such thing as a "kind".

357 posted on 05/03/2005 3:38:38 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: bobdsmith

Don't need to, ask a vet. (the pet kind) They see cross breeds and mutts all the time.

Or better yet, my neighbors with the husky/wolf dog.


358 posted on 05/03/2005 3:40:43 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: MacDorcha

I meant the bit about all dog breeds turning into the one true dog again.

I think what would happen is all the aesthetic dogs created to look nice would go extinct, and the more wolf-like ones would survive.


359 posted on 05/03/2005 3:42:02 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: JeffAtlanta

I think we have different presentation styles and that's fine with me.

I think if you review my statement you will agree that it is technically correct, although limited.


360 posted on 05/03/2005 3:47:25 PM PDT by From many - one.
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