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CAFTA: Last Nail in the Coffin?
The American Conservative ^ | May 9, 2005 Issue | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 05/01/2005 9:40:04 AM PDT by A. Pole

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To: Havoc
GM and Chrysler were putting out reliable, dependable and good cars before the market was swamped with cheap outside competition

If you think the GM and Ford cars of the 70's and 80's were reliable, you are a nut. They were junk. The domestics have improved but are still not up to the imports, but they improved only because they had to.

281 posted on 05/03/2005 9:23:48 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: Havoc
But, hey, some people are getting filthy rich

I just don't equate rich with filth. I equate filth with poor, welfare, lazy, etc. Rich means you are providing a valuable good or service. Poor means you are providing a not so valuable good or service. Rich is good. Rich pay most of the taxes.

282 posted on 05/03/2005 9:26:06 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: eskimo
I coulda sworn the Senate voted on those. Are you saying they didn't?
283 posted on 05/03/2005 9:29:19 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Maybe the U.S. Senate is "extra-constitutional?" One can never tell with these people.


284 posted on 05/03/2005 9:39:46 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: eskimo
Seems the more rabid shills for the present "free trade" farce have the fewest rational answers to the most important questions. All they seem to offer is emotional fits, probably born out of the lust for profits.

On this particular thread, I posted my first sourced assertion in reply #19. And your contribution is?

285 posted on 05/03/2005 9:41:52 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

You're just a profit luster!!


286 posted on 05/03/2005 9:43:03 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: eskimo
the lust for profits

What is wrong with profits ? I like profits. I intend to make profits. The more profits the better. I try to invest in companies that make profits.

287 posted on 05/03/2005 9:43:52 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: 1rudeboy
Maybe the U.S. Senate is "extra-constitutional?"

I heard from a guy in the WalMart parking lot that 12 of the Senators had their fingers crossed behind their backs when they voted yes on NAFTA. That means that it really didn't pass.

288 posted on 05/03/2005 9:46:08 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: Sam the Sham
They have NO comparative advantage

Comparitive advantage should be renamed relative advantage. A shoesaleman (think al bundy) can sell shoes and do lawn mowing cheaper than jose. But it will still be in his advantage to sell shoes and hire jose. In other words, do what you do best and outsource(domestically or internationally) the rest. The law of comparitive advantage is really a mathematical description of common sense.

289 posted on 05/03/2005 9:48:41 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: eskimo
One other thing. Do you realize the absurdity of claiming that I am having an "emotional fit" when you reply to someone else's comment that he disagrees with my statistics?
290 posted on 05/03/2005 9:49:30 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: staytrue; Havoc; ninenot; A. Pole; Nowhere Man; 1rudeboy
I just don't equate rich with filth. I equate filth with poor, welfare, lazy, etc. Rich means you are providing a valuable good or service. Poor means you are providing a not so valuable good or service. Rich is good. Rich pay most of the taxes.

The free trade mantra in a nutshell. Rich is good. Rich is superior. Sure, half or more of the American workforce will see free trade reduce them to a third world level. But they were only losers who didn't provide valuable enough goods or services. They were weak, inferior, and we cannot tolerate the weak and inferior. The strong (or at least the well connected) must triumph. People who aren't brilliant are expendable casualties to the purity of free trade. The weak must be expended so that the strong may survive.

But of course 1rudeboy assured me that my sense of a pervasive elitist contempt for the lower orders among free traders was pure BS so I guess he must be right.

291 posted on 05/03/2005 9:50:16 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: staytrue
What is wrong with profits ? I like profits. I intend to make profits. The more profits the better. I try to invest in companies that make profits.

Now you've done it. How dare you even suggest such a thing? Someone will be by shortly to slice-off your fingers, lest you post your reactionary ideas again.

292 posted on 05/03/2005 9:52:59 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Sam the Sham
The free trade mantra in a nutshell. Rich is good. Rich is superior.

Finally, the protectionist mantra in a nutshell. Poor is good. Poor is superior.

I think that'll sell with the American people.

293 posted on 05/03/2005 9:53:40 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: Sam the Sham
What would become of those silly free-marketeers without you telling them that you know better?
294 posted on 05/03/2005 9:54:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Toddsterpatriot

It won't sell with free traders who think of themselves as Ayn Rand's beautiful, brilliant heroes towering above the "looters" who would dare set limits on their actions. Real people in the real people see themselves as regular Joes just trying to survive and if possible get ahead. And that's not possible if they are being underbid by the entire goddam third world.


295 posted on 05/03/2005 10:00:09 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: iconoclast

Talk about irony. Your post could've been written by Karl Marx.


296 posted on 05/03/2005 10:00:40 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Yeah, when the essential ugliness of the free trader pops out by accident he has no choice but to cover it up by yelling "commie".


297 posted on 05/03/2005 10:02:55 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: Sam the Sham
Your assignment for the afternoon. Please compare and contrast. Take your time.

iconoclast: Well, you've swallowed the koolaid alright, but when we buy more than we sell, it means fewer jobs .... and the jobs left are paying less because of the influx of cheap labor.
How in the world does the average American (like Bush's old lady with the three jobs) come out ahead while competing against incredibly cheap labor abroad and falling wage rates at home.
Meanwhile the top 5% (you don't even wanna think about the top 1%) watches with glee as there annual incomes increase at rates that are HUGE multiples of that of the peons.
At the same time you count yourself blessed because you just bought a shiny new power mower at WalMart.

_____
Karl Marx: But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.


298 posted on 05/03/2005 10:08:36 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Sam the Sham
It won't sell with free traders who think of themselves as Ayn Rand's beautiful, brilliant heroes towering above the "looters" who would dare set limits on their actions. Real people in the real people see themselves as regular Joes just trying to survive and if possible get ahead.

"Poor is better" will sell with real people? I don't think so.

And that's not possible if they are being underbid by the entire goddam third world.

The third world has been underbidding us for how long now? We still have what, 130 million or 140 million jobs. That should be impossible according to you.

Just how do we do it?

299 posted on 05/03/2005 10:10:13 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: Sam the Sham

One more thing. On this thread, you called your intellectual opponents "shills" as early as your reply #37. Why so sensitive to name-calling all of a sudden? Can't take it?


300 posted on 05/03/2005 10:12:08 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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