Posted on 04/25/2005 12:15:48 PM PDT by Bob J
BUMP
The real world is less radical than what you see on-line.
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Y'know... I'lll bet Nick Berg and Eugene Armstrong and Jack Hensley and Kenneth Bigley and Robert Jacob and Shosei Koda and Paul Johnson and Kim Sun-il and Jasus Masel and Benlamin Vanderford and thousands of others would voice their real world objection to your idiotic statement... but then they no longer possess their own heads from which to voice said objection !!!
But then what do they know, eh, Southack? Surely their beheadings were not accomplished on-line? They were beheaded in that real world of loving and peaceful Islamofacist murdering monsters... who were merely following the instructions of their satanic God, Allah akbar, and his one and only satanic prophet, Mohammud (may he rest in pig sh!t) !!!
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51
I think we should encourage moderation among Muslims at every chance we get. Even if they plan on taking over the world slower than the radicals, it has been proven that it's harder to "keep em down on the farm, after they've seen Pari" so to speak. When people experience some freedom they want more of it. So Muslims who practice a more moderate religion will likely draw more Muslims over to their way of thinking. So I say we do whatever we can to support the moderates.
I appreciate the ping. Thank you.
I see it that way also. Not that I think highly of Islam. I don't. But I have complained for years about the lack of response coming from within the Muslim community towards terror. Now these "moderates" are responding, at least it would certainly appear so.
So....if some moderate Muslims finally do the right thing, they speak out, condemning the use of terror and the terrorists (descriptive words even the MSM won't use) shouldn't we affirm them?
What's that say about us if we refuse?
Islamists note the urge to find moderate Muslims and are learning how to fake moderation. Over time, their camouflage will undoubtedly further improve.
Even a cursory perusal of the Koran and Sunnah/Hadiths will reveal violence and intolerance at the core of Islam's belief system. In particular, Muslims who espouse peaceful practices are held in contempt within Islam. For example, take a look at Qur'an 33:60
"Truly, if the Hypocrites, those in whose hearts is a disease, those who stir up sedition, the agitators in the city, do not desist, We shall urge you (Muhammad) to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering. (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived before. No change will you find in the practice of Allah."
bttt
The official, politically correct point of view says that Islam is just another monotheistic religion, not that different from Judaism or Christianity.
If that is true, then moderate Muslims must exist, just like moderate members of other faiths.
However, moderate members of other faiths do not require sacrificial mollification -- that's basically how we tell moderates from extremists.
Therefore, either moderate Muslims are mythical creatures, or we need substantially different criteria to identify them.
That dilemma alone should make us suspicious as to whether Islam is "just another religion".
Obviously, it is important that we determine how a moderate Muslim can be distinguished from a Muslim extremist.
Why not ask Muslims themselves?
Irshad Manji, a young Canadian author, has published a book titled The Trouble With Islam.
Since we don't hear too many Muslim voices criticizing their religion, her book deserves our attention.
This is what the author herself says on her promotional Website:
"I appreciate that every faith has its share of literalists. Christians have their Evangelicals. Jews have the ultra-Orthodox. For God's sake, even Buddhists have fundamentalists. But what this book hammers home is that only in Islam the literalism is mainstream."
Apparently, the terms literalism and fundamentalism in the quotation above are used interchangeably, as synonyms of religious extremism. Unfortunately, the author fails to mention the most important difference between "literalists" in Islam and other religions. Evangelical Christians may believe that heaven is reserved for them alone.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews may display intimate understanding of the murkiest places in the Talmud.
I have no idea what extreme fundamentalist Buddhists do that sets them apart from their moderate coreligionists.
What I do know however is that no religion except Islam pursues the idea of physical extermination of those who believe differently.
The concept of holy war is unique to Islam.
Jihad is the absolute monopoly of Muslims.
There is no parallel to it in any other religion in the world. (Yes, I have heard about Crusades, but Christianity does not mandate them, and do you know when the last Crusade ended?)
So, here we have it in plain English, as simple as A, B, C:
1. According to the Koran, holy war against the infidels is a sacred duty of every Muslim.
2. According to Ms. Manji, mainstream Muslims interpret Koran literally.
The conclusion is inevitable:
3. Mainstream Muslims perceive war against the infidels -- meaning you and me -- as their sacred duty.
Since we're trying to organize MAT events all over the country, I pinged all the FreepNorad lists. Since you're on the Virginia list, you got pinged.
America is embracing a religion that is said to promote peace as many moderate Muslims happily practice it. But as Yale professor and military historian Mary Habeck points out, this "peace" is only the first phase of Islam. The "method of Muhammad" largely known by Middle East Islamists is to spread Islam peacefully at first but always including covert groups of "true followers" who will use violence against those who will not accept it. This method is verified in Islam’s holy book, the Sira, and the pattern has been repeated throughout history.
When scholars point at the Koran and the terrorist verses recited over acts of violence and beheadings, Muslims claim those verses are out of context. But they are only out of context to Islam’s first phase. "Peace" is not the last phase of Islam. Muhammad, reverenced as Jesus Christ is to Christians, is the role model. Muslims believe if they want to experience his success, they must follow his footsteps exactly, and Muhammad slaughtered 600 to 900 Jews that rejected his "peaceful" Islam, then sold their wives and children into slavery as he continued to quote Allah, adding terrorism, beheadings and carnage.
Bin Laden believes he is following Muhammad’s footsteps. He did not hijack a religion, he just took it seriously.
The answer is not to claim moderate Muslim beliefs are true Islam. The answer is not to ask our children to get on their hands and knees and pray to Allah in public school, to "become Muslim," fast for Ramadan, and "assume you are a Muslim soldier" as our textbooks direct. Once the governing majority is Muslim, "true Islam" and the totalitarian oppressive Sharia laws come into effect. Our freedoms will be slowly choked from us as they are being choked from France today.
President Bush probably doubts we can "win the war on terror" because that would require the eradication of Islam completely, something America would never endeavor. Religious freedom is fundamental to us, it is part of what makes us great. We will not outlaw Islam, we will not hunt down and kill every Muslim in an effort to win the Jihad pronounced by sheiks. President Bush is absolutely right, we can’t "win" the war, we can only fight to maintain our stature and freedom while we hunt down a never-ending supply of Islamic terrorists.
Thus we have already "won" every day we stand as a shining light, (though dimming if our nation continues to oppose God).
But the plight of the moderate Muslim is grave. As America slowly admits the enemy is true Islam, every effort must be made to embrace the moderate Muslim, not persecute them. The answer is not to blind our eyes and try to convince ourselves that moderate Muslims represent true Islam. They don’t. Islam is defined by its holy books, and the holy books proclaim death to all who oppose it, even moderate Muslims. The answer is to live in reality, recognize the violence of true Islam as it rears its head, and ask moderate Muslims to reconsider. True Islam pronounces moderate Muslims as apostate, they are the "near enemies" in the Sira and without true conversion, they will be slaughtered right along with Christians and Jews. American Muslims need to take a hard look at what their Koran, in its entirety and true context, demands. They can no more denounce the method of Muhammad than Christians can denounce the sacrifice and love of God. I know, because as I battle with public educators for my children’s religious freedom, I get angry, and God continually rebukes me for my anger. He reminds me of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for them as well, and I am constantly humbled.
Muhammad slaughtered unbelievers. Jesus Christ gave Himself to be slaughtered. Muhammad took life, Jesus laid down His own life. I am to love these educators that would ask my sons to practice abominations to God, but I am not to give my sons over to them. We are to LOVE American Muslims, but we ought not give over our nation. We need to admit what true Islam is... or we can invest in prayer carpets, head baskets and burkas.
So as America wakes up to our enemy’s identity, pray for protection of moderate Muslims. They bought a belief without substance, a way of life without a Savior. Embrace them, love them and share His holy light with them. But at the same time, do not allow public schools to lead your sons and daughters to their plight. (and please pray I don’t lose my temper in a courtroom defending my sons religious freedom. I can’t believe what they’re teaching).
Jen Shroder
Desperate search for moderate Muslims goes all around the world. It is especially urgent in Europe whose face is being irreversibly altered by mass immigration from Islamic countries. Recently, the British government appealed to the growing British Muslim community to isolate extremists in their midst. It's not hard to predict the response. Actually, there will be no response, because everyone in any Muslim community is an extremist. Such is the nature of Islam, and the only thing that I find hard to comprehend is the self-imposed blindness of the British government. Apparently, such is the price of liberalism and political correctness. Bye-bye, Europe. We are next.
I don't think World War II could be won if the Allies, instead of eradicating Nazism, attempted to replace Nazi extremists with moderate Nazis. Actually, nobody was looking for moderate Nazis during World War II. But those were simpler, purer times. Today, the mythical moderate Muslim remains the focal point of the US foreign policy in the Middle East. The blind faith in his existence has already led the United States to many monumental failures, and many more are to be expected in the future. Meanwhile, the moderate Muslim, along with the Big Foot, the unicorn, the Loch Ness monster, remains more elusive than a cure for cancer: there is at least a theoretical possibility that a cure for cancer can be found one day, unless of course Islam takes over and drags us all down into its own endless Dark Ages.
it is good news. Now lets see them put their money where their mouth is. Pray for change.
Thanks for the ping!
I can't join you in your cynicism, but you sure said a mouthful there. Very well put.
Thanks for the Ping, Mr. S.
Please ping your lists, etc. Spread the word. Can anyone make a new thread?
Rally for Impeachment of Judge Greer
Monday, May 2nd at the capitols on Washington, DC and Tallahassee. Starting at 9:00am going all day!
SHOW the Bushes, etc. that we ARE NOT GOING AWAY!!
Greer is an illegal judge. Why do the Bushes tell others not to investigate?
Schiavo Death Order Void Due To Greer’s Lack of Jurisdiction
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/
FL House Speaker Allen Bense:
“Governor Bush began to champion Terri’s cause very early on, and he used every appropriate power at his disposal to try and save her. He deserves the appreciation of those on both sides of this debate for how he has respected both the sanctity of life as well as Florida’s Constitution throughout this situation.
“This issue will now slowly fade from the front pages of our newspapers and the news tickers at the bottoms of our TV screens. However, I hope the concerns it raises at the forefront of our public consciousness so that more people will see the need for clearly expressing their desires on end-of-life issues”.
Yes, can >>> anyone make a new thread <<<< ???
this belongs in a thread by itself. Too new here
and have not been able to do this myself.
I personally will not be able to get to Washington
but will join others in NYC. Anyone interested?
>I personally will not be able to get to Washington
>but will join others in NYC. Anyone interested?
Unless my ride comes, I may not be in NYC Monday.
My apologies
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