Posted on 04/24/2005 1:23:57 PM PDT by JesseHousman
Makes sense to all those but the gay commie-wing of the RCC.
The issue with liberation theology is not so much helping the poor or even demanding that the government help the poor, both of which feature pretty prominently in Catholic social teachings. (Catholic social justice doctrine is very liberal). It's that the religious people involved in the movement in the 1970s got too entangled in politics and many became too close to violent guerilla movements.
Actually Marxism is a soul deadening atheistic belief that substitutes faith in the State for faith in God.
Che Guevarra said: "To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."
"Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine – this is what our soldiers must become," Guevara said.
http://havanajournal.com/politics_comments/2734_0_5_0_M22/
SonnyM: Not likely, its pretty clear that he wanted people to voluntarily help their fellow man, not throw them in prison for refusing to do so
SonnyM: If Jesus had had any kind of Marxist beliefs, he would have led his followers in demanding government intervention
SonnyM: [Jesus] would not advocate seizing personal property to redistribute to the masses.
I agree with SonnyM.
No way can the Gospels be interpreted to imply that the poor are to be helped by extorting or stealing money from others, rich or otherwise. They clearly indicate that it is the duty of individuals to do so and that it is the responsibility of individuals to do this on their own.
Jesus was never one to miss a chance to make a point.
In His encounter with the rich man when the man was told that he should sell all he had and give to the poor, he turned and walked away. Jesus gave no hint that the intractability of the rich meant that they must therefore be taxed, nor did he instruct anyone to go and take things form him in order to help the poor. Instead the man was allowed to walk away with only the comparison between rich men/heaven and camels/needles. The discussion then turned to how anyone could be saved. Note also that Jesus did not condemn the rich man in any way. In fact, he said he was "not far from the kingdom."Also, John the Baptist told tax collectors to take no more than their due. He gave no hint that extra should be taken from the richer individuals and given to the poor.
The only biblical endorsement for any form of "socialism" is limited to the VOLUNTARY sharing of resources within ones family and ones church, and a temporary voluntary sharing of resources when people find themselves in dire, emergency situations.
God NEVER permits INVOLUNTARY taking (STEALING) of resources from one person in order to give it to another.
God instructs "his followers" to GIVE, but not all people are "his followers".
He in no way permits anyone to TAKE what someone doesn't want to "give", though. A person cannot be forced to be a "follower of God" or to conform to his instruction even if he claims to be a follower.
Capitalism is the most moral system ever devised to protect the interests of both secularists and "followers of God."
All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - that includes NON-Christians.
Any professing "Christian" who advocates taking a resource away from those (secularist, or not) who earned it in order to give it to those who didn't earn it, is a thief, pure and simple.
The Constitution of the United States was only put into place to GUARD men's rights. Otherwise it is a meaningless document.
What's the *?!?!?!
Poor people wood stay poor if they rely solely on hand-outs from the cnurch or anybody else. And they certainly would become even poorer under any Marxist rule - blessed by the Commies in frocks or otherwise.
bump
Maryknoll? Can you explain that? I'm serious.
Your mind is so small.
The intrinsic danger to Rome was the creation of "comunidades de base", or base communities, that rejected the larger Catholic community for small cells which would act little different than the Marxist cell. They gave more allegiance to radicalized Spanish Jesuits than to the local Bishops, and that was really scarey.
The Maryknolls, who benefitted from the support of Democrat House leader Tip O'Neill (whose neice was a Maryknoll), were a radicalized Catholic movement who found a home among the Indian communities in the Guatemala highlands in the early 1960s. Among the most notorious were the Berrigan Brothers -- anti-war activists and Marxist fellow travellers who led numerous demonstrations during the 60s.
Hmmmmm, did not realize that. My mother (bless her heart) gave to Maryknoll while I was still living at home and continued to do so until her death. We did too. We have stopped all contributions EXCEPT St. Jude Hospital and the church we now attend. All our efforts go with these two. At least my mother gave from the heart and always told us if we give in that manner what happens after that will be out of our hands.
Thank you for the information.
The situation was similar in neighboring Nicaragua, where revolutionary Christians allied themselves with the Sandinistas. The worst offender was the priest Ernesto Cardenal, who declared that "The New Testament made me a Marxist." A pamphlet published by the Central American Historical Association ("a pro-Marxist Jesuit organization") was illustrated with a gun-wielding Sandinista forming a shadow of Christ on the cross. The Somoza government accused Archbishop Miguel Obando of being a Communist, but Catholics backed him.
The Jesuits are the main target of attacks, but that has always been the case. See especially Malachi Martin, The Jesuits. The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church. However, the Franciscans are viewed as almost as bad. Especially fingered is the Worldn Father John Vaughn, whose reelection as Minister General Pope John Paul tried in vain to block. [ He is no longer Minister General]. The Maryknoll Order promoted armed struggle; Sandinista Foregn Minister Miguel D'Escoto, who had belonged to it, was praised by the president of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in the United States, Bishop James Malone. The case of the Berrigan brothers was well-publicized in the United States. The enemies of Liberation Theology seem to have a mixed attitude toward Pope John Paul II. One frequent charge is that leftist priests, like the Communist leaders with whom they ally themselves, while posing as defenders of the poor, enjoy uncommon perquisites. [Note: the articles here analyzed give a historical perspective, but the situation is constantly changing].
Am glad that we ceased and desisted. Very interesting article.
"The only biblical endorsement for any form of "socialism" is limited to the VOLUNTARY sharing of resources within ones family and ones church, and a temporary voluntary sharing of resources when people find themselves in dire, emergency situations."
Yes, but the real choice is between one being a Christian and not being a Christian. That is the voluntary choice. Once you have decided to become a Christian, if you are serious about being a Christian then you must give the shirt off your back as well as your coat.
You cannot be a Christian and not follow the teachings of Jesus. You can't negotiate those teachings - you follow them or you don't. Those teachings are essentially a non-secular version of socialism. Once you commit your heart to Jesus, you must follow his teachings. "A man cannot serve two masters" and all that.
I think the teachings of Jesus are nuts. "Blessed are the meek?" Tell that to DOD. I guess we should chuck our military equipment in the ocean, huh? "Blessed are the poor?" I grew up poor, and let me tell you there is nothing blessed about it. "Blessed are the peacemakers?" No doubt Neville Chamberlain read that one.
No thanks. I'm keeping my coat and my shirt. I'm voting for a strong national defense. And quite frankly, screw the poor. Most of them are poor due to their own choices. I'll take the almighty dollar over a non-existent God anyday.
"That said, she [Rand] was a harsh anti-religious zealot, atheist to the core, and her opinions were going to reflect that."
Yeah, she was a little down on religion. But she never advocated forcing people to give up religion. She, like I, just hope people grow out of it. But hey, if you're dirt poor I suppose believing in heaven will get you through the day.
"Rand's idea that religion (though she used christianity more often then not, I don't think she actually cared about the differences between any religons) [...]"
They are all pretty much the same. Some books of ancient poetry, believe or your are damned, etc. A few lines about love, a few lines about war. But most of all, the main message is "accept the place you were born into, if that place sucks you always have the afterlife." Such a position is fundamentally UnAmerican. America is about anybody making it with hard work, smart work, and a little luck. I refused to accept my place, worked hard, and now I'm doing very well thank you.
"Interestingly, in regions that are the most hostile to capitalism, and are more prone to marxism, happen to have the most (usually mandated) atheism."
Actually, I'm agnostic. If there is a God or gods, let them show themselves and make their case. If He/She/It/They don't care enough to make themselves known, then why should I care?
My reaction was pretty much the same.
"Environmental racism" must be the fact that the weather tends to be lousy in poor countries, therefore the environment is racist.
Heh.
It's getting harder and harder to keep up with those trendy Marxist/socialist catch-phrases.
Marxism is the best way to keep the masses poor, both in body and in spirit.
Just a suggestion, not a criticism. I was once where you are now.
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