Loosening Religious Grip at Air Force Academy

Los Angeles Times ^ | April 24, 2005 | David Kelly

[squirt-gun]

The decline and fall of the American Republic

[goldstategop]

Its all the Christians' fault! Its all Bush's fault too!

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[RAY]

I'm told many military individuals have found God in a foxhole, shelled ship, or falling aircraft. Practice and visits with God are a good idea before these type events occur.

[JOE43270]

I've heard the saying for years "There are no aethists in foxholes". This U.S. Air Force Airman wants his aircraft leaving the runway with crews that believe in God because they are taking the foxhole to altitude. God Bless America and all Airman.

[ran15]

To me it sounds like they are trying to stop mainly inter-christian fueding.. Where one sect is accusing another group of not being the true path.

It doesn't seem like a great way to have team unity

[TalBlack]

"And another thing, did anyone else notice that it looked like all of the PC police mentioned were...female? Whats up with that?"

Consider how far they have gotten in the AF because others were forced to shut up where such shutting up was and remains convenient to them: They hold jobs that others around them were more qualified for. They hold rank that others who were more qualified were denied. In doing so they accept salutes that they have not earned and they take pay that is not theirs. And they have no compunction about placing in danger the very lives of others to serve themselves. They are frauds. They have no sense of honor or fairness. Expect from them what they are.

[AmericanChef]

-He later removed it and underwent sensitivity counseling.-

Hope he survived.

[middie]

What the hell are these ostensible military leaders thinking? We, the officer corps, have absolutely no business in religious indoctrination or advocacy. Every individual is totally free to pursue his own personal religious program but to institutionalize or endorse anything of that nature from any level of command is abject stupidity. AF Hdqs. should put a stop to it at once and come down like a ton of bricks on any officer or NCO engaged in such inappropriate conduct. We arm and fight for our national interests, the mission, and primarily for the guy on our wing, unit or ship. We do not, as a nation, arm or fight for any or a specific Deity.

The Crusades ended 700 years ago and history has demonstrated that an armed force governed by religious zealots and purportedly conducting its action in the name of a Deity will suffer a well deserved defeat. International conflicts are driven by vital national interests and assessments of an adversary's strenghts relative to your own and your allies. When the concept of carrying out a Divine mission enters into the mix rationality and the art of applying military science disappears and, you lose. It's that simple.

I'm not prepared to place the lives of men and women under my command in jeopardy for what some civilian like the current day TV evangelists and religious fanactic consider to be a holy mission. I'll leave the "mission from God" to John Belushi and Dan Akroyd as in The Blues Brothers. I'll agree to stay out of Dr. Dobson's faith of money raising and tape sales business but he, and his colleagues, must stay out of the business of conducting military operations or the underlying decision to enage in conflict.

[frankiep]

Oh yes. I can't count how many times I've had to go to mandatory sensitivity training, sexual harrassment training, equal opportunity training, etc., in lieu of actual warfighter training. Yet another wonderful legacy Bill Clinton.

[pajama pundit]

I there is a Truth then we have a responsibility to seek "It."
"If you seek Me you WILL find Me." Duet. 4.29

The dilemma for Christians is that we have a message of salvation (from hell) and we have a commission from Christ to share that message. We are not trying to increase the size of our (denomination) for the sake of having the biggest religion. We want to respect the freedom of choice, but it's very frustrating (and sad) to watch millions reject Christ and go into eternity without Christ.
"If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev. 20.14
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

[Mr Rogers]

Tend to agree.

but to institutionalize or endorse anything of that nature from any level of command is abject stupidity.

On a personal level, we should be free to discuss and advance our religious views. Doing so from a position of authority (ie, if I'm the CC and have a large religious poster on my office door) is another matter.

I'm more iffy on emails - I get emails daily that don't involve work per se - notes from friends and former co-workers (mostly jokes)...sometimes will send out something with religious implications to a handful I know will accept them as a note from a friend. I view this as a form of networking - I'm surprised at how often I'm working a problem and can go, "Wait a minute - Joe said something about that project..." and get some info to break the logjam. But when it comes to religion and politics, it pays to be careful - offense taken in these subjects carries a lot more potential for anger.

[zzen01]

Sound typical of the PC USAF! What a PUKE org!

[nevergore]

Everyone....

It is much worse at USAFA than the article represents....

My daughter is a cadet there and leads a prayer group...

She is also a Freeper (since 2000) Proud_to_be_an_American

I'll try to get her to logon later and explain exactly what is going on there. We talk to her daily....

Yesterday was Pinnacle (used to be called Recognition) so the Cadets scurried off base after the ceremonies....BTW, it's now called Pinnacle because Recognition (the tradition) was too exclusionary by the new Officer Staff.....

NeverGore :^)

[Orca]

Considering the source of this article--the Marxist L.A. Times--and the feminist, liberal tone, one has to recognize it for what it is: an attack on Christianity, pure and simple.

The RSVP class may be a good thing to curb youthful zeal that sometimes oversteps the bounds of propriety. However, the other restrictions are overreactions and an infringement on anyone's religious freedom.

Christianity and Christian organizations at USAFA have played a vital role in the good character development of cadets. As our society has experienced considerable moral decline in recent years, the caliber of new cadets has also declined. The traditional mores valued by the military--honesty, perseverance, self-sacrifice, courage, etc.--are increasingly difficult to find in the average new cadet. Therefore, character training at the the Academy has received a lot more attention in order to make up for what parents and public schools have failed to teach these youngsters as they were growing up. Many Christian organizations and local churches have stepped into the gap and been welcomed by the Academy as vital helpers in this character training effort. Similar efforts are in place at the USMA, the USNA, and the USCGA.

The battle success of the United States military has been positively affected by the presence of thousands of Christian officers and enlisted personnel who are the direct and indirect products of these Christian based character programs.

And, of course, the Marxist L.A. Times does not like this and so we see this article and other similar attacks in progress.

[Little_shoe]

I think that this is just a smoke screen for change to be forced down the institutions mouth. What do you mean that you cant put up religious posters??? When I was at the Naval Academy I had religious inspirational posters up in my room and I never heard anything flack about it... The Brigade was pissed when we found out that the ACLU was trying to stop the chaplains prayer before noon meal.
As another Southern Baptist Im willing to let everyone believe what they will even if I think that they are wrong. Im in the military to protect our country and constitutional rights. However when somepeople try to force me to change my religious beliefs b.c they dont disagree with yours your discrimination of me is wrong. I think that our country has become too politicaly correct in focususing on cultural and relegious minorities. The politicians and the courts forget that we are "One Nation Under God."
They should start the draft up again... Libs would make good cannon fodder...

[madprof98]

It is much worse at USAFA than the article represents....

Quite unfair to drop this on us without explanation AT ALL. What is the "much worse" part? Too much religious pressure? Or (as I suspect) too much mandatory "sensitivity training"?

[HostileTerritory]

The complaints came from people within the Air Force Academy--cadets who were committed to serving their country--who had some overzealous evangelicals try to convert them at random times and who were then called "filthy Jew" when they refused to join their churches.

Discipline and respect for your fellow cadets are cornerstones of the Air Force Academy. I don't think that evangelicals should get special rights because they feel strongly about their religion--there are right ways and wrong ways to try to spread the news, and a lot of 19 year olds aren't experienced enough to know when they're crossing a line.

[HostileTerritory]

Do you believe there are no Jews in foxholes, too?

[JOE43270]

Yes I do and I'm in there with them. I would be HONORED to be in a foxhole with a Jewish person. They believe and so do I in God. This is not about saying how you can worship. This argument on religion comes from when America won WW2. The Communists, Nazi's and the Japanese vowed to beat us from within. This is where this arguement comes from an no one gets it. I really don't know where you stand on this. If you understand what I mean now that's great. If you don't like my thoughts then understand this. I would be HONORED to be in a foxhole with a Jewish person. If you happen to be on the other side and don't want the Jewish person and I to believe and worship then you are our ENEMY and we will both be fighting you and watching eachothers back. You choose, I'm in the foxhole now and my Jewish Buddy and I have you in our sights. I would hope you understand and that you aren't our enemy. GOD BLESS AMERICA and all who have defended HER and DON'T leave the JEWISH PEOPLE out because they have defended America along with the Gentiles.