Jay Sekulow: How a Jewish Lawyer from Brooklyn Came to Believe in Jesus

jewsforjesus ^ | 2005 | Jay Sekulow

[malakhi]

Good that you fit the sterotype!

Bad that you still peddle the same old anti-semitic stereotypes.

[Bommer]

Even worse you embrace them. Good luck with your Golden Calf!

[JockoManning]

Quix, did you see this?

Also, my Jay Sekulow bookmark.

JM

[Liberal Classic]

I find this just a bit beyond the bound of polite discourse. I'm always distressed when I see Christians furthering the stereotype of money-grubbing Jews. People who claim the Proverbs and Ecclesiastes as scripture ought to know better, and should consider King Solomon, who was a man of great wealth, power, and knowledge, who teaches us that these things are not the end all and be all of existance. There is nothing wrong with wealth, but we all know that you can't take it with you. Ultimately it is keeping the Lord's commandments that is really important.

[Liberal Classic]

Fear his teaching? Most of what Jesus taught was completely consistent with Judaism (understandably). In fact, most of it was taken directly from the Hebrew scriptures. So no, I have no problem with most of what Jesus taught. It is what was later taught about him with which I disagree.

Very well said. Thank you.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"...and His original convenant was never nullified."

You are of course, right! Every word of every covenant has either been fulfilled, or will be. The Eternal Covenant between Father and Son doesn't mean the Father will not bring a fulfillment of Israel's New Covenant - or the Davidic, or the Abrahamic Covenants. Scripture makes this clear and I believe it.

This, however, is the Church age. The path of salvation in this age runs through Christ. It will also run through Christ during the time Israel is regathered in the land.

"I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn."

Zechariah 12:10

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Matthew 24:30-31

If you are alive then, it will be undeniable. If you die before then, you've made your decision. In the meantime, everyone can come - Jew or Gentile - which is as inclusive as can be. Even so, come.

[Bommer]

I didn't further it.

[Inyokern]

Most of what Jesus taught was completely consistent with Judaism (understandably).

And you should mention that treating the sick was NOT prohibited on the sabbath, contrary to what the Gospels claim.

[1 spark]

Oye vey, another Christian who is unaware how Jews interpret Zechariah 12:10. Here's are several sites explaining the original take on that:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/1551/prophets/zech1210.htm


http://www.messiahtruth.com/zec1210.html

http://www.messiahtruth.com/zech12.html

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq084.html

[jabotinsky]

"What do make of Isaiah 53, and Daniel 9?
It was written to you."

yeah you seem to be asking lots of people that question. But I'll play along.

1. what complete chutzpah/gall missionaries/apologists must have by using sacred Jewish text to promote an idea that is antithetical to the very core of Judaism (God siring a child - a nice replica from Greek mythology - but why be bothered with details of the myth's origins?)

2. using Isaiah, Daniel, X(take your pick) in justifying christian mythology is as valid as assigning the name "al Aksa" to a remote mosque and then miracolously attributing the koranic name to this very site! despite the fact that no such location/structure even existed at the time of the koran's writing.

3. I wonder if your so quick to point out the numerous references and core beliefs of Judaism which utterly refute the presence of nay messiah on earth so far. Of course you dont, that would be somewhat incovinient. Here's a puzzler, if the messiah already exists then how come since his demise, there has been no Temple? numerous holocausts and disposetion of the Jewish people? how come instaed of peace on earth there has been nothing but total war?

4. if you still wanna play the quote vs quote pissing game, I have a few hundred quotes from the Torah/Talmud myself. You wont be pleased with what they have to say about the matter.

ONE God One People - accept no immitations.

[Quix]

Thanks. Saw it but haven't read much of it yet.

Much appreciated.

[Delphinium]

No offense taken, or meant. I know you answered the question, but what I meant was how you personally translated those hebrew Scriptures?

[Delphinium]

Why so bitter? Nothing I said was meant as an insult.

if you still wanna play the quote vs quote pissing game

Last thing I want to do. Only God can reveal to you that Jesus is the Christ.

[1 spark]

RE: "What do make of Isaiah 53, and Daniel 9?"

Isaiah 53:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html

http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53a.html

http://www.geocities.com/yirmeyahuallen/missionary.html#IS53

http://chelm.freeyellow.com/page13.html

http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/cjso/Sam/isaiah2.html


and Daniel 9:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-da.html

http://www.angelfire.com/my/tgoldman0/prophet.htm#dan9

http://home.att.net/%7Efiddlerzvi/Daniel9.html

For whom was Jeremiah 16:19 written?

[jabotinsky]

dolphin,
I am not bitter, justy tired of the trite old lines (daniel blah blah, isaiah x y z).

the ongoing assault is a personal affront to self resepcting Jews becasue it implies that the missionary and hus supporters have outright contempt for the beliefs that has sustained my ancestors for 5 plus thousand years.

I eagerly await Melech HaMoschiach and the redemption. In its time, with the world watching. Kings and heads of state will pay homage to the throne of David in Jerusalem, instead of the ongoing groveling of pathetic "Jewish" leaders wondering the globe kissing ass.

[Delphinium]

the ongoing assault is a personal affront to self resepcting Jews becasue it implies that the missionary and hus supporters have outright contempt for the beliefs that has sustained my ancestors for 5 plus thousand years.

We see it as love , and most of us understand why you don't see.

Aren't you glad that Christians are truly friends of Israel?

[jabotinsky]

with friends like this!?

do I love America as the Christian nation that it is?
a resopunding YES. Do I have any discomfort with christians being christians? not in the least.

But I do and will have a BIG problem when any group makes a concerted effort to rip Jews away from their heritage, families and future (especially young, uneducated, reformed, liberalized know nothing Jews) by using deceitful methods, often based on highly suspect, captionized Jewish texts.

I dont doubt the there is affection for Israel by christians around the world. But unlike the bolshivik whores who run Israel, as a true friend, I am honest when I say unapologetically that the missionary pogrom against Jews must cease.

There is abundant goodwill for christians in Israel. Despite the state of affairs now, Jews who think and speak like me are slowly but surely asserting themeselves in Israel. they wont sit idly by and allow any physical or spritual insult go unanswered.

[Delphinium]

the missionary pogrom against Jews must cease

It is not against Jews, and it won't cease.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Hey, thanks for the links -which I read. And when I read the following...

"In summary, the Jewish perspective on Zechariah 12:10 is that it may be viewed as either an historical event that occurred in the prophet's time or, alternatively, as a messianic prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled. Neither of these interpretations agrees with, nor can accommodate, the Christian view that it is a messianic prophecy that was historically fulfilled with the death of Jesus."

I found myself reading what I wrote that led you to respond. The passage is a future event, not fulfilled yet, but will be after the nations come together in the Land against the Nation of Israel ( a regathered Jewish people).

Some of what is written on those links goes to great lengths to explain away things and if we had a long time to discuss them, we would. There is simply too much info there for these kind of posts.

So, what I wrote earlier stands. A future Messianic event - as described in the Septuagant, translated by Jews. The nation will look at Messiah who they pierced in the past, and mourn, recognizing it was Him. And the nation responds instantly.

Yes, I realize you don't agree now. But I wish you the best.

ampu

[rwt60]

I find your posts quite interesting. As a Christian, I wish I had the ability to interact one-on-one with informed persons such as yourself so I could understand more about Judaism, particularly as it relates to the beginnings of the Christian faith.

I offer for your consideration a sample of the rabbinical writings that tend to support some of the Christian beliefs that have been discussed in this thread. It is difficult to produce lengthy material because of the medium, so I will keep it limited to a few items. Thanks for any insights.

"The Son of David will come only in a generation which is either altogether righteous or altogether wicked. 'In a generation which is altogether righteous;' as it is written: 'Then will your people be righteous and they will possess the land forever' (Is. 60:21). Or 'altogether wicked;' as it is written: 'He saw that there was no one, and he was appalled that there was no one to intercede' (Is. 59:16)... 'And behold, one like a son of man, coming in the clouds' (Dan. 7:13). It is also written, 'gentle and riding on a donkey' (Zech. 9:9): if they are righteous he will come in the clouds. If not, he will come humbly and riding on a donkey." --Sanhedrin 97b.

"Rabbi Hanin said that Israel will not require [listen to] the teaching of the Messiah-King, because in Is. 11:10 it is written: 'In that day the Gentiles will rally to the root of Jesse,' but not Israel. If this is so, why will the Messiah-King come, and what will he do?" --Midrash Bereshith Rabbah par. 98.

"The Messiah-King will clearly elucidate for them the Torah and the errors into which they have thus far fallen..." --Matanoth Kehuna

Shalom