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Jay Sekulow: How a Jewish Lawyer from Brooklyn Came to Believe in Jesus
jewsforjesus ^ | 2005 | Jay Sekulow

Posted on 04/09/2005 3:59:58 PM PDT by churchillbuff

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To: free_life
Have you ever noticed that Jews and anyone else who takes the effort to the actually read the prophecies concerning the Messiah end up finding Jesus as Messiah.

Except we don't. We don't accept that Jesus or any other self-declared Messiah has fulfilled the prophecies. In fact, Christians even acknowledge that, promising us that well, he didn't have a chance the last time, but'll have a second chance at some point in the future. What I think is interesting is that you're condescending, saying we don't know what we're talking about. Well, maybe we do -- for the Jews of the world, Christianity and Islam surround us 24/7. We're exposed to your beliefs, we're familiar with them, and in many ways, we respect them. Just don't force them down our throat.

As far as proselytizing. Judaism has never brought G-d to others which is why Judaism is what it is.

A small, dignified insular religion of no harm to anybody? The greatest right is that to be left alone. Leave us alone.

241 posted on 04/12/2005 4:43:21 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: sauron
I was never even aware of the hatred others had for Christians until I was in my mid-20'

There is no hatred for Christians. Believe what you want -- no Jew is trying to change your faith. Most Christians have no problem with Jews. But a small minority do. And they're the ones trying to destroy Judaism by whatever means necessary -- they're the ones trying to convert us to another religion.

242 posted on 04/12/2005 4:45:35 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: PigRigger
I'd rather get your impressions on the behavior of his followers after the crucifixion of Christ.

Do you really want my impressions?

It appears to me, from reading the Book of Acts, that they were a cult, very much like some of the cults that exist today. They lived in a commune. They ran scams, telling people that the end of days was coming soon and that they should sell all their possessions and turn over all the money to the cult because, when the messiah came back, anyone with money would not get into paradise.

Apparently, a couple named Ananais and Sapphira held back some of their money and the Nazarenes found out about it and the two them wound up dead. (The Nazarenes claimed Christ killed them). The Nazarenes are then hauled into court but the liberal Rabbi Gamaliel shows them leniency and they get off with only a flogging.

243 posted on 04/12/2005 4:46:06 PM PDT by Inyokern
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To: Alter Kaker

There is an enormous hatred for both Christians and Jews...


244 posted on 04/12/2005 4:48:37 PM PDT by Battle Hymn of the Republic
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To: Battle Hymn of the Republic
There is an enormous hatred for both Christians and Jews...

No, I know. I'm not saying that nobody hates Christians, just that Jews don't. Which is one of the reasons (the other being, of course, feasability) that we're not trying to eradicate Christianity the way some Christians are trying to eradicate Judaism.

245 posted on 04/12/2005 4:50:22 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: churchillbuff
Equal time for the other side:

Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist

246 posted on 04/12/2005 4:58:43 PM PDT by Dave78
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To: Inyokern
"It appears to me, from reading the Book of Acts, that they were a cult, very much like some of the cults that exist today. They lived in a commune. They ran scams, telling people that the end of days was coming soon and that they should sell all their possessions and turn over all the money to the cult because, when the messiah came back, anyone with money would not get into paradise."

Wow, what a breath taking diatribe. I suggest you actually read the New Testament before making such statements. Clearly you have never read it; it might serve you in some manner, the very least being the factuality of your argument.

However it is rather interesting. You suppose that simple fishermen conspired to become con artists; who made up a stories about a non-existent Messiah; so they could somehow get rich.

Only problem with your theory is that the Apostles lived in poverty, giving most of their possessions to the poor and needy. They spent a good time in jail, or on the run, or being persecuted for their beliefs. In addition, faced with the ability to save their necks, they chose not to deny but rather face horrendous deaths instead. Far from con artists, they admitted their sinful nature and their need for redemption.

Even with all that being said, you fail to address the original question regarding the surviving Apostles. Rather, you describe an outlandish resolution, suggesting law abiding Jews conspired to create a cult so they could somehow steal money from the poor, naive, and ignorant.

Unfortunately, I should have known better than engage you seriously.

Shalom...
247 posted on 04/12/2005 5:26:26 PM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: Alter Kaker

*****Most Christians have no problem with Jews. But a small minority do. And they're the ones trying to destroy Judaism by whatever means necessary -- they're the ones trying to convert us to another religion.*****


Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down


248 posted on 04/12/2005 5:44:23 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: jabotinsky

Try telling that to Larry Kudlow and Bob Novak.


249 posted on 04/12/2005 5:53:38 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: churchillbuff
" If they were making up their religion, they should have left this part out - because it's an incredibly hard sell..."

Yep, the resurrection is the key; it makes or breaks the deity of Christ. To those who witnessed the risen Christ, the chains of death held no threat. To those who believe without seeing, they are blessed in eyes of the Lord.

But to some on this thread, the Apostles were all in it for the money.

Honestly, I've lost a lot respect some people tonight. I guess it really is true; by their words you will know them.
250 posted on 04/12/2005 5:58:51 PM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: P-Marlowe

So you're saying you don't want Jews to convert to Christianity? Or do you? If you do, you want to destroy Judaism. That's pretty simple.


251 posted on 04/12/2005 6:05:07 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker; sauron; Buggman; churchillbuff
So you're saying you don't want Jews to convert to Christianity? Or do you? If you do, you want to destroy Judaism. That's pretty simple.

No I'm saying you're paranoid.

Nobody is forcing you to become a Christian. Nobody here wants to destroy Judaism. We love Judaism. The foundation of the Christian Church is Judaism.

It is my belief that God will deal with Israel in his due time and as he has prophesied. In the interim, we Christian fanatics would like nothing more or less than to persuade you of the truth of Christianity. But if you don't accept it, then that is fine. Indeed it is God's will. It is not my job to convict you of the truth. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. My job is to preach the Gospel to all creatures, Jew, Gentile, Atheist, Muslim, whatever.

In the meantime your attitude toward those who are here to attempt to persuade you is one of paranoia. That's pretty simple.

252 posted on 04/12/2005 6:14:58 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Bella_Bru

"And no, I don't need your messiah. I am not interested in someone who needs 2 tries to get it right."


haha! well said, I raise this glass of manishewitz to you.

yeah right...the messiah was already here...and the world has seen this level of blood and brutality in the 2000 years since???

Jews for jesus? How about Moslems for Moses?


253 posted on 04/12/2005 6:39:08 PM PDT by jabotinsky ("I die with Jabotinsky's name on my lips" - Shlomo b.Yosef, moments before his hanging by Brits)
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To: jackbill

I would tell that to any befuddled Jew led astray by charlatans in disguise.

if any religion is so freakin great and the source of all truth then why do you its believers

1. resort to mass violence and intimidation to force conversions ala. the ishmaelities?
2. resort to coercion ...with food and medical supplies as in the recent tsunami disasters? here my child, here is the food and shelter you crave..ahh but first let me brainwash you with a few myths..."
how terribly sick and twisted indeed.


254 posted on 04/12/2005 6:44:19 PM PDT by jabotinsky ("I die with Jabotinsky's name on my lips" - Shlomo b.Yosef, moments before his hanging by Brits)
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To: churchillbuff

"You mean Jay Sekulow doesn't exist? He's a figment of our collective imagination?"



oh how clever! You take an argument that I clearly make in the spritual sense and point out that it cant exist in physical form...

I bet you were a straight A student.

always throwing your education around.


255 posted on 04/12/2005 6:58:06 PM PDT by jabotinsky ("I die with Jabotinsky's name on my lips" - Shlomo b.Yosef, moments before his hanging by Brits)
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To: jabotinsky
You take an argument that I clearly make in the spritual sense and point out that it cant exist in physical form... """

No, I'm pointing out that the term "Jew" or "Jewish" is so elastic, that I don't understand how you can say "it's immpossible to believe in Jesus and be a Jew." Now, Barbra Streisand is Jewish, so is Michael Eisner, Barney Frank, Charle Schumer, Barbara Boxer, Michael Newdow, George Soros, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Jerry Springer. So it's possible to believe in almost anything and be Jewish. Why you can believe whatever it is that Boxer or Springer or Shumer believe and still be Jewish, but Jay Sekulow CAN'T be Jewish (even though he says he is and his parents certainly are) is a question that a lot of folks will find hard to answer.

256 posted on 04/12/2005 7:05:50 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: Alter Kaker
you want to destroy Judaism"""

Is a person of Jewish lineage who becomes Christian still considered Jewish for purposes of Israeli citizenship?

257 posted on 04/12/2005 7:08:36 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: jabotinsky
[ MEGA PROSELTYZING SOUL SNATCHING MISSIONARY BARF ALERT. ]

Jabby, lift your Talis out of the mud and keep on moving..
Your holding up the line..

258 posted on 04/12/2005 7:28:10 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: sauron

Cheers!


259 posted on 04/12/2005 7:35:29 PM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Hi Mack.

So basically, he had no Jewish education, had no understanding of the Jewish scriptures, and never tried to actually find out how believing Jews understand them. All in all, a not-very-compelling conversion story.

260 posted on 04/12/2005 8:08:21 PM PDT by malakhi
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