Okay, We Give Up [Scientific American "Caves" on Evolution]

Scientific American ^ | 01 April 2005 (ponder that) | Editorial staff

[b_sharp]

"Indeed. Our conservative scientists are a treasure!"

Hey! Be nice now. Scientists are people too.

[b_sharp]

"It's the baseless and unobserved extrapolatian to speciation that's debated."

Before you get pummeled with a pile of observed speciation events, maybe you should define 'speciation' as you would accept it before any of us waste our time.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOLOL! Thank you for your reply!

[Modernman]

Many threads ago, when I argued Darwinianism was the moral cover for on-demand sexual license frameworks, I was so ridiculed by these folks

And rightfully so.

[b_sharp]

"Dave, I assure you. They do indeed know, and they don't care. Many threads ago, when I argued Darwinianism was the moral cover for on-demand sexual license frameworks, I was so ridiculed by these folks it was as if I was trapped in DU instead of FR"

Was it maybe because you were wrong? Or it was thought you were spreading unsubstantiated bologna?

[b_sharp]

"Just give us a few, and let's check them out. Don't put yourself to a whole lot of effort...because goodness knows such well-known specimens as you seem to be aware of are well-proliferated and easily accessible. Right?"

If I have no idea what your definition of speciation is before hand, the minute I show what science considers speciation, you will disregard the evidence based on a different definition. Give the definition first, then I'll post links to prove my point.

[DannyTN]

"Perfect editorial for April Fools Day: "The fool says in his heart 'There is no God'..." -- Ps. 14:1"

That reminds me of this...

The Fool's Prayer
by Edward Rowland Sill

The royal feast was done; the King Sought some new sport to banish care, And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool, Kneel now and make for us a prayer!

The jester doffed his cap and bells, And stood the mocking court before; They could not see the bitter smile Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head and bent his knee Upon the monarch's silken stool; His pleading voice arose: "O Lord, Be merciful to me, a fool!

"No pity, Lord, could change the heart From red with wrong to white as wool; The rod must heal the sin: but, Lord, Be merciful to me, a fool!

" 'Tis not by guilt the onward sweep Of truth and right, O Lord, we stay; 'Tis by our follies that so long We hold the earth from heaven away.

"These clumsy feet, still in the mire, Go crushing blossoms without end; These hard, well-meaning hands we thrust Among the heart-strings of a friend.

"The ill-timed truth we might have kept - Who knows how sharp it pierced and stung? The word we had not sense to say - Who knows how grandly it had rung?

"Our faults no tenderness should ask, The chastening stripes must clense them all; But for our blunders - oh in shame Before the eyes of heaven we fall.

"Earth bears no balsam for mistakes; Men crown the knave, and scourge the tool That did his will; but Thou, O Lord, Be merciful to me, a fool!"

The room was hushed; in silence rose The King, and sought his gardens cool, And walked apart, and murmured low, "Be merciful to me, a fool!"

[DannyTN]

"This is their lame-ass attempt at clever way of diffusing the very accurate charge that their magazine has grown unbearably political over the last few years."

Well said.

[myrabach]

Since when is Scientific American a serious scientific journal anyway? Undergraduate level at best, at least it makes the kids feel like they know science.

[RightWingNilla]

If before, my experience (admittedly with non-academic jobs, but with jobs nonetheless) is that there isn't too much opportunity to talk extensively about politics or much of anything else non-work-related during the interview.

I work in a small field, the people know each other.

Also interviews can last for days. You go out to dinner, shoot the breeze etc.

Unfortunately "conservative" is not a good label to have, mostly because of its association with creationism and biblical literalism.

I think Ive won some of my co-workers over though!

[RightWingNilla]

The list I gave you has many profiles of their scientists.

I have been working in biomed sci for almost 15 years and have *never* encountered a literal genesis creationist. Even Behe accepts evolution and common descent (his problem is with the actual origin of living things).

I defy you to go into any accredited university, research institute or biotech company and find any staff scientist who doesn't accept evolution.

[inquest]

Unfortunately "conservative" is not a good label to have, mostly because of its association with creationism and biblical literalism.

I still would submit that that's not the actual reason, just the stated reason. If they were really concerned about creationism, then that's what they'd talk to you about. To draw conclusions about your scientific views based on your opinion of Bush's tax cuts is ludicrous even by leftist standards. Occam's razor points much more in the direction of leftists not liking conservatives because they're threatened by conservative views (but don't want to say so), not because they might somehow be linked to creationism.

And if they really do think that, then nothing's going to convince them otherwise, even if creationism disappears from the face of the earth. They'll still just assume that conservatives don't have the critical thinking ability to be a scientist, merely because they disagree with conservative views.

[MeanWestTexan]

Alas, the transitional fossils of invertibrites (in this case largely snails) have been well-known for about 50 years. So I'd be a bit late.

In fact, certain transitional fossils are commonly used to spot the tops of oil or gas bearing formations (reefs) --- as they are often a very narrow band (2-3 feet in a 16,000 foot hole).

[RightWingNilla]

Well youre entitled to your opinion on the matter.

I am just telling you my own experiences.

There is a growing population of libertarians in science I am noticing however.

[RightWingNilla]

Does anyone see why I view these rabidly pro-evolution Freepers as downright trollish? RightWingNilla, you're doing exactly what liberals and media dinosaurs did on election day. They were stunned -- STUNNED -- that Bush won. They didn't know ANYONE that voted for Bush! It has to do with insulating circles you run in. (And trust me, as a student with biology classes, I do NOT run in a circle of only creationists...frankly, it's hard to find them sometimes, amongst students)

Dave,

I am not trying to be a troll. I am seriously challenging anyone who posts lists of these supposed creation scientists to actually go find one.

I haven't yet.

[PatrickHenry]

There is a growing population of libertarians in science I am noticing however.

In the academic world, "libertarian" is probably a much more acceptable label than "conservative." And when you give your conservative views about free markets, low taxes, and national defense, it's what they'd expect of a libertarian. If you stay away from discussing social issues, and the oddball issues that seem to attract people to libertarianism, no one will realize you're a conservative.