Posted on 03/31/2005 2:27:31 PM PST by goldstategop
There was really no controversy from medical authorities about the reality of this situation it simply is not that unusual. And doctors do not make their decisions about such matters using their "biases" but such ridiculous beliefs is all that is left for the Schindler side.
No it is a simple recognition that we do not have infinite resources and those resources are better used elsewhere. Admitting that is hard but no more inhuman than many decisions which must be made.
Terri died fifteen years ago but her body was re-animated to a slight degree. She was dead.
She was neither hungry nor thirsty having gone far beyond any such desires or feelings. God never intended for Terri to have her death dragged out for fifteen years.
She was as far as one can get from being "otherwise healthy" having a few autonomous functions operative is hardly "otherwise healthy" but such thinking verifies what I maintained to the letter wrt lack of brain activity being insufficient reason to pull the cord.
Terri was not in her state by "God's will" but by the will of men who refused to let her death stand and brought her back to the state she has subsisted in for the last fifteen years.
When my Arlene was brought home it was obvious that she had no chance but we probably could have extended her life by returning her to the hospital and feeding her as Terri was. But where was the sense in that? Where was the mercy or Love? But her family did not dig in their heels and send out character assassins against me as has been done here. While she was conscious we tried every kind of theraphy known to man to no avail. When she found an experimental treatment not covered by our insurance I made sure she got it though the 25 grand it cost was hard to come by. But I loved her beyond anything on earth and was willing to try anything she wanted. It is particularly galling to be called a heartless brute or without a conscience or only concerned about money by people who just don't know.
And I have been persistently and personally attacked for my opinions about this matter and been called every vile name one can imagine for them even on this thread here. Now I never call the moderator about such stuff but many would have and have the offending posts pulled. It is such intolerance and hatred which started me to think there was something wrong in this case. Combined with the conspiracy theories which became wilder and more extensive by the day cinched that suspicion.
I appreciate that you have not engaged in that manner of debate and if I have mistreated you in it I apologize. There is no joy in giving my opinion and no joy in having Terri finally go to God
Yes I am saying that and I believe that spirit left TErri when she died that horrid day so long ago when her heart stopped and her brain was destroyed. What was left was not Terri anymore.
If someone would have sneaked into Terri's room at noon on 3/18/2005 and shot her to death, they would be charged with murder now!!!!
But, one hour later, Michael Schiavo, Judge George Greer, and lawyer Felos pulled the trigger of another gun that caused Terri's death 13 days later and are not being charged with murder?
Money, money, money, money, money,money, it's always about the Money!!!Follow the Money! sheeeshhh.
No it isn't always about money sometimes it is about something much more important. In this case it is about the retention of FR as an important political force.
O- kaaayy, then if it is about mercy and letting go, wouldn't it have been kinder to just give her a lethal injection like convicted child killers get (on occasion)? Or one of my dying animals? Cheaper too, in the long run.
That would be against the law. Some people still care about the law particularly when the entire world is watching. It would not surprise me if this happens on occasion when the entire world is not watching.
I want to apologize for that post. I was very angry yesterday because of Terri's death. I had no right to take it out on you.
The majority of people polled yesterday, agreed that it was murder to starve Terry Shiavo to death. That was the poll question.
Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol excerpts.
``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''
``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.
``You wish to be anonymous?''
``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''
``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''
``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.''
``But you might know it,'' observed the gentleman.
``It's not my business,'' Scrooge returned. ``It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!''
Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him.
Later.....
``A Merry Christmas to us all, my dears. God bless us!''
Which all the family re-echoed.
``God bless us every one!'' said Tiny Tim, the last of all.
He sat very close to his father's side upon his little stool. Bob held his withered little hand in his, as if he loved the child, and wished to keep him by his side, and dreaded that he might be taken from him.
``Spirit,'' said Scrooge, with an interest he had never felt before, ``tell me if Tiny Tim will live.''
``I see a vacant seat,'' replied the Ghost, ``in the poor chimney-corner, and a crutch without an owner, carefully preserved. If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, the child will die.''
``No, no,'' said Scrooge. ``Oh, no, kind Spirit! say he will be spared.''
``If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, none other of my race,'' returned the Ghost, ``will find him here. What then? If he be like to die, he had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.''
Scrooge hung his head to hear his wn words quoted by the Spirit, and was overcome with penitence and grief.
``Man,'' said the Ghost, ``if man you be in heart, not adamant, forbear that wicked cant until you have discovered What the surplus is, and Where it is. Will you decide what men shall live, what men shall die? It may be, that in the sight of Heaven, you are more worthless and less fit to live than millions like this poor man's child. Oh God! to hear the Insect on the leaf pronouncing on the too much life among his hungry brothers in the dust!''
Scrooge bent before the Ghost's rebuke, and trembling cast his eyes upon the ground.
Apology accepted.
One can never go wrong with Dickens one of my favorite authors and of whom I have never finished a book, save the Pickwick Papers, without copious tears.
However, it is most effective to have the quotation be appropriate which this one isn't as I have never suggested that Terri was "suplus" or deserved to die. Terri HAD died and while dead her brain was destroyed to the point that she had no life left and was little more than a physiological process after being brought back from total death. The appropriate question here is how many Tiny Tims could have been saved with the enormous resources spent because of the Schindlers in trying to deny reality?
When sentiment begins to trump reason on a massive scale society is in grievous danger. When resources are thrown away in obviously hopeless causes no insanity can be ruled out.
Unfortunately she wasn't "starved" to death. The chemical inputs to the physiological processes which characterized her existence after she died fifteen years ago were stopped.
OH I think this quote is right on target.
You missed the lesson of the citation. Scrooge was not rebuked for misjudging which man lives and which dies, He was rebuked for taking that authority upon himself. "Will you decide what men shall live, what men shall die?
Terri HAD died and while dead her brain was destroyed to the point that she had no life left and was little more than a physiological process after being brought back from total death.
No. She didn't die till Thursday. Legally, reasonably or factually. The judge didn't declare her dead. Her brain was still functioning. You admit yourself she was more (if only little) than a physiological process (which can be said about anyone)
She just wasn't functioning at the level that the eugenics crowd believes is worth keeping around. If she had been pregnant when her brain was traumatized and the baby was carried to term, that child would not have been brought into the world by a dead woman.
The appropriate question here is how many Tiny Tims could have been saved with the enormous resources spent because of the Schindlers in trying to deny reality?
Oh God! to hear the Insect on the leaf pronouncing on the too much life among his hungry brothers in the dust!''
Tiny Tims are hopeless causes, didn't you know that? You are too sentimental over troublesome cripples. They are not worth saving. They really don't have real lives when you think about it reasonably. How many good harding working people could've had better lives and healthier children if not for wasting the enormous resources on denying the reality of Tiny Tims and their hopeless causes?
I know! Why not keep her alive as an incubator for her organs? We could've harvested her piece by piece if she was truly dead. What a waste of material. Maybe we could have long halls of encephalics maintained for the sole purpose of organ donation. Sound good to you?
When sentiment begins to trump reason on a massive scale society is in grievous danger.
Correct, but in this case the sentiment is the misguided attitude that the disabled are not alive and that the brain and the body is the be all and end all of life. And that those people do not have a stabilizing factor in society by engendering charity and compassion. All of which is being attacked by those transfixed by the dogma of death. It is a religion, don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Talk about wasted resources, when society goes further and further down the drain and lawlessness becomes more overt, boy the cost of that is gonna be high!
When resources are thrown away in obviously hopeless causes no insanity can be ruled out.
Thank you George Washington. Glad he didn't have that attitude. What's the next hopeless cause? The aged, the infirm, the retarded, the unwanted children? The Jews? The Muslims? The Christians?
Wonderful post. Dickens puts the "surplus population" concept into its proper place, with derision and scorn. To what depths we have now fallen....
I meant to say political motivations that transcend reason.
Perhaps. But I don't think we should starve someone to death just because we 'believe' their spirit may have already left their body. (Obviously, there are those who think that is not the case.)
My only "political motivation" in this is that FR not be discredited and rendered powerless by the ascension of mass hysteria over a non-event. An event similiar in basic nature that thousands occuring every day but without a propaganda campaign spreading falsehoods and disinformation.
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