Posted on 03/30/2005 7:30:24 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo
You do know that Terri has had multiple EEGs don't you? And the region that controls cognitive thinking is flat.
Would you like some court documents to read about this; I'll send you links if you'd like them.
There are only two people who have ever actually examined Terri who say she isn't PVS and they are alternative medicine doctors. One didn't know the diff between coma and PVS. The other couldn't back up his claims he has helped other patients like Terri by providing the court one name or one record; he advertises in the National Inquirer and insurance companies won't work with him.
Morphine is given to all patients removed from feeding tubes, whether they have cognitive abilities or not.
It's called a "just in case" measure.
If this goes from being an isolated incident to a major trend, then I'll cede you that point. It looks in every way like a marginally legal thing that was pursued in a very immoral way, by a family full of morally questionable people. I don't see it as being indicitive of anything.
If anything, the trend is heading in the other direction, we just don't have the historical perspective to grasp it. American soldiers, for instance, used to routinely shoot wounded enemy, or commit what we would today consider 'massacres' of enemy forces. Read some reports on WWII, and you'd be shocked as to how little we cared about civilian casualties, compared to the extraordinary lengths that we go to today. I have no doubt you'd find similar medical parallels as well.
Technology has made advances in both medicine and war, but if morality had not kept pace, then we'd be capable of some real atrocities, on both fronts.
That's not historically supportable at all. After we forcibly edited Japanese culture, did they suddenly lose all respect for human life? Of course not. 60 years later Japan is still one of the most pacifist countries on the planet. Europe, which was once cauldron of constant war, has fallen into similarly peaceful philosophies. This wasn't the result of the disregard for human life that our culture spawns.
People complain all the time about our evil cultural imperialism, but one thing you can note about countries that suffer it is that they become markedly more interested in things like 'human rights' and 'law'. America has been one of the great civilizing factors of the 20th century.
So, to argue that one court case is indicitive of the moral health and decline of the country is preposterous. We are far from perfect, but further from the Imperial Japanese than you can imagine.
How about comparing human beings with human beings?
Terri Schiavo has exactly the same "worth" as you do Peach.
Cognitive abilities have absolutely NOTHING to do with our
value as human beings.
In the eyes of God, that is.
And that's ALL that really matters.
Feeding tubes are removed from patients every day of the week, without living wills, btw.
If you don't like the laws, work to change them.
Clever, clever.
The Imperial Japanese lived under a military dictatorship, and had all the moral legitimacy that a dictatorship provides. They had no Constitution, or Bill of Rights, or any legal safeguards whatsoever. There was no social contract or commitment that people will not be deprived of life or liberty without due process. They had nothing. They didn't even have the pseudo-legitimate cover that Hitler did about being elected.
So, while I am amused by the clever twisting of words, I'm not seeing your point.
Worse than the Imperial Japanese? Off to a library with you, good sir.
I don't even know how best to address this patently hysterical post, other than to say that you are deeply misinformed by the likes of NewsMax and WND, and should branch out a bit. If you can't even think of your own lands as 'free states in a free country' then what legitimacy does the law hold for you anymore?
I think you're misinterpreting the actions (or lack thereof) of the branches and levels of our government. If you really think that they've become a band of fascist outlaws, then I don't know what to tell you, other than cut back on the Joseph Farah intake.
Thus Peter Singer of Princeton argues that unless an organism is self-aware over time, the entity in question is a non-person. The British academic John Harris, the Sir David Alliance professor of bioethics at the University of Manchester, England, has defined a person as “a creature capable of valuing its own existence.” Other bioethicists argue that the basic threshold of personhood should include the capacity to experience desire."
You see where these people with warped minds are trying to take us. God help those who are helpless, or disfigured, or less than perfect in so many ways. They, too, will be unplugged one day.
^^^^^^^^
This is the mindset of people who would support embryonic stem-cell research, cloning, production of designer babies, etc. Some life is definitely worth more than others.
PS: I wish we would change the expression "unplugged" as it allows a lot of people to believe that the person with a feeding tube is attached to a machine.
The NG or G-tube is independent of a machine. Food can be delivered by filling a syringe or even a funnel and putting the tip in the end of the tubing.
I'm sure they are.
All manner of evil goes on every second of every day.
One of the few legitimate purpose for government is to see to it
that evil deeds and evildoers are punished, not rewarded or protected.
You are right, we need to change the laws.
Our first job should be to get enough Godly Justices in there to reverse Roe v Wade.
You have no right to play God and declare Terri (or anyone) unworthy of life because of disabilities. To think that you would both shocks me (I would have never expected it from you) and disgusts me. It also saddens me, to think that there are people like this on Free Republic.
With all due respect, if you don't know the topic well enough to name the region of the brain that might be damaged (according to very old, inefficient tests mind you), you have no right whatever to declare her unworthy of life. You have been known on Free Republic as a pretty good researcher. I suggest you research this topic more thoroughly.
#1. Terri has had multiple EEGs, including in 2002.
#2. I've been told so often it's impossible for her to have a flat EEG because then she couldn't breath on her own that I did do research. That's I've forgotten which region of the brain controls breathing in no way negates the fact that she has a flat EEG and no cognitive abilities.
#3. Why don't you do a little research on that matter.
You are again comparing apples with oranges. The feeding tubes that are being removed are coming out of the dying. Terri was not dying until they began this murderous process. She was still a living, breathing, heart-beating human being, beloved by her family, and hated by her husband (and apparently the courts).
Most feeding tubes are removed from people whose organs have failed and who realistically cannot actually process food from the tube anyway. Often, they leave them hooked up to ivs, because dehydration can be so painful.
Thanks!
I can see you must not be a fan of sushi or yakitori!
You are hot - and that is the right word - to condemn this woman to death when 1) her parents have shown in every manner that they deeply love her and want to take care of her all her life; and 2) there is a total lack of evidentiary material to support her husband's assertion, (post-liability law suit) that she, herself, wanted this.
There's nothing I or anyone on this site can convey to you that will change your outlook for one reason, it seems to me: you are without love. Playing - playing - the angel of death is hardly in accord with the Commandments "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Do not kill."
But the Final Judgment on this assuredly awaits you, as it does all of us. And if love is sustenance - as it is - Terri Schiavo, and her parents and siblings, will long live resplendent in the hearts of millions of persons.
No, I haven't read "the court documents", whatever that may refer to, but I have been involved in the design and manufacture of medical electronics, including EEG apparatus. I have also been involved in actually running EEG's on patients in the real world. If your EEG is flat, you are not in a coma, you are not "PVS" (I hate that term. It sounds like a federally-funded broadcasting organization.). If your EEG is flat, whether someone calls you a vegetable, an animal, or a mineral, you are not alive. You may be hooked up to a machine to make your chest go up and down, but you are, Madame, quite dead.
Let it go please.
We are all tired of the arguing.
I don't know who Joseph Farah is. Is he related to that blonde who was on Charlie's Angels?
I stand by the comparison of the U.S. government to Imperial Japan. If we are talking about numbers of people killed, the Japanese win hands down. If we are talking about the rule of law being perverted to kill the innocent, irrespective of body count, it's a closer contest. One does not have to disregard the rule of law to come to this conclusion.
The "masters in black robes" comes from a dissenting opinion recently penned Antonin Scalia. I do not believe he is "hysterical" in his assessment of the current state of the balance of powers. Perhaps you have a more nuanced view than he has. God bless you.
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