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California Law Provides for Killing of Non-Terminally Ill (Terri Schindler)
California Law ^

Posted on 03/30/2005 9:30:39 AM PST by TheDon

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To: TheDon
I think the monetary issue is well understood, but I'm questioning the moral issue in these cases.

For which I salute you, but one thing I've learned reading FreeRepublic the past two weeks is don't bother trying to argue from a position of morality with people who are only interested in monetary issues.

21 posted on 03/31/2005 10:34:19 AM PST by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Kenny Bunkport

Perhaps true! But if I don't prick their conscience, who will? I have found some are also pro-abortion, and euthanasia is more of a "I want to be in control of my body and my life" issue, i.e. I have a living will and it is none of your business.


22 posted on 03/31/2005 10:41:38 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: djreece

How many people do you think knew about this before Terri's case? I'm guessing most people still don't.


23 posted on 03/31/2005 10:42:35 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: TheDon

I'm not begrudging you your effort. It's commendable. I'm only reflecting on the truth that, as a pro-lifer, and one who believes the courts are dangerously out of control, when it came down the crunch, I found more allies among the likes of Jesse Jackson, Alan Derschowitz, and Ralph Nader than I did among some of my FR "brethren."


24 posted on 03/31/2005 10:45:44 AM PST by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Kenny Bunkport

LOL! As they say, politics makes strange bedfellows.


25 posted on 03/31/2005 10:54:04 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: TheDon

Very few. I think most still think it is just a matter of bad law in Florida. I do have to give California's top court credit for stopping a similar case here a few years back, but we need to raise public awareness and change the law.


26 posted on 03/31/2005 10:58:23 AM PST by djreece (May God grant us wisdom.)
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To: TheDon

All states do except for Illinois.


27 posted on 03/31/2005 11:07:54 AM PST by MarMema ("America may have won the battles, but the Nazis won the war." Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall)
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To: TheDon

I can understand not keeping people alive with machines such as heart and lung and dialisis machines, when there is no hope for treatment or recovery. Keeping them artificially alive serves little purpose if they are not contributing to the society or the family life, and a moral case can be made that is is wrong to prolong suffering by artificial means just to preserve an artificial life that has no hope of survival without artificial means.

But that is a far cry from simply removing a feeding tube, when all other bodily functions work without mechanical means. In Terri's case, I believe it was a horribly misguided and immoral decision. If a person can swallow food and water, or even if they need the tube for convenience sake (i.e. because nobody has the time or inclination to help them bring food and water to their mouth) it is, in my judgement, immoral to deny them food and water.

What happened to Terri - the demand that no food or water be fed to her by the mouth - amounts to murder in my opinion. This was a horribly wrong decision and I am wholly dismayed at the judicial system for not recognizing the immorality - and indeed the illegality - of their decision to deprive her of food and water by mouth.

That Michael Shiavo claims that Terri once said in passing "I would not want to live like that" - not even describing what "that" she was talking about (i.e. a heart & lung machine, or a feeding tube?) is considered clear and convincing evidence of a desire to die if stricken with her specific condition was an atrocious and frightful decision.

A feeding tube amounts to very little in raw costs and any claim of the financial burden of a feeding tube really only reveals the absurd and out of proportion health care costs. It is the system we have that demands a "professional level of care" instead of sending her home with her family to care for and provide the feeding tube is the problem. We have artificially increased the costs of caring for her and those like her by demanding that she be placed in a high-cost environment, when a low cost environmnet coupled with a few hours of training (i.e. how to clean the feeding insert and how to change the feeding bag) would suffice to extend her life for years to come. We have abdicated our familial and social responsibilities to the government, and then cry when the government refuses to take on that burden in the manner we expect. To a degree, only a small degree, what has happened here is the fault of Americans at large. Not only regarding health care - we have abdicated our social, welfare, security and educational responsibilities to government as well, and we are getting our just desserts for so doing.


28 posted on 03/31/2005 11:08:45 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Desdemona; AKA Elena; Domestic Church; onyx; sockmonkey; St. Johann Tetzel; GirlShortstop; ELS; ...
Ping

Theresa Marie Schindler, Martyr for the Gospel of Life, pray for us.

29 posted on 03/31/2005 11:12:53 AM PST by Siobhan (Divine Mercy Chaplet)
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To: monkeyshine

I think we are generally of a like mind on this issue. I believe these euthanasia laws regarding the removal of nutrition and hydration are clearly immoral, regardless of the desires of the person, written or otherwise.


30 posted on 03/31/2005 11:17:03 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: TheDon
How many people do you think knew about this before Terri's case?

I did. Years and years ago.

31 posted on 03/31/2005 11:20:36 AM PST by MarMema ("America may have won the battles, but the Nazis won the war." Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall)
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To: TheDon
It's now open season on those on life support, and even the sick being sustained by food and water.

This decision also paves the way for infanticide, since infants can't feed themselves.

32 posted on 03/31/2005 11:21:18 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: TheDon
Directions to provide, withhold, or withdraw artificial nutrition

What the hell is 'artificial nutrition'???

Is it nutrasweet? Is it a plastic bag? Is it wallpaper paste?

WHAT THE HELL IS ARTIFICIAL NUTRITION??

33 posted on 03/31/2005 11:27:32 AM PST by Slyfox
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To: Slyfox

I'm off Burger King to get my artificial nutrition.


34 posted on 03/31/2005 11:31:04 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: MarMema

Do you know of any suggested language for changing the laws or groups that are already working to change them?

Thank for your help.


35 posted on 03/31/2005 12:15:05 PM PST by djreece (May God grant us wisdom.)
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To: djreece
You're right on my tail. Back then I emailed Bob Marshall and asked him how to get the law changed. He tried to do just that in the state of Virginia. With absolutely no luck.

I wish I could recall what his reply to me was but it was not hopeful.

I did call some senators here and they said it was pretty much hopeless. Maybe in your state it would have a chance.

36 posted on 03/31/2005 12:18:54 PM PST by MarMema ("America may have won the battles, but the Nazis won the war." Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall)
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To: TheDon

Scary stuff, we are there all ready.


37 posted on 03/31/2005 12:21:51 PM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: Computer Central

Ping


38 posted on 03/31/2005 12:22:37 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: MarMema

Thank you. I think it's a new day now. I think a lot of people are horrified by the thought that someday they could be the one lying there starving and dehydrating to death and at the total mercy (or lack thereof) of one guardian who may have conflicts of interest.

It would be nice if California could lead the way on this.


39 posted on 03/31/2005 12:24:29 PM PST by djreece (May God grant us wisdom.)
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To: NormsRevenge; Citizen James; Ernest_at_the_Beach

For consideration for your ping lists.


40 posted on 03/31/2005 12:31:38 PM PST by djreece (May God grant us wisdom.)
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