Posted on 03/24/2005 5:47:34 PM PST by Crackingham
Not at all. Jewish customs (what you refer to as 'Jewish heritage') are not part of the gospel of grace, and falling away from Christ can only be a fall from grace, not from any peripherals like Jewish traditions or customs.
I would suggest reading Paul's epistle to the Galatians. In it, he argues that the Gentiles are not to be held to the Law any more than post-Resurrection Jewish Christians are. For example, Peter regularly ate with Gentiles according to Galatians 2, which is contrary to Jewish traditions--one is not even to set foot in the home of a Gentile if one is Jewish.
I am not saying that I want to be bound by the law...far from it. But Christianity that decries Jewish heritage is like...Coffee Mate without coffee.
Jewish heritage? Well, I think many of us Christians learn a little something about that most Sundays. :-)
It's hard to explain and I probably won't do so very well in this meager sentence, but I consider Judaism much closer to the origin of my faith than, say, Catholicism.
Me too. And yes, I learned about the Israelites every Sunday.
This thread has been interesting. I heard a Pastor once warn that as we get closer to the tribulation we are going to see a definite apostate trend develop towards Judaism. I see he was right. I see it is getting gaining momentum.
Judaism has steadfastly opposed Christ for 2000 years now, yet Judaizers equate that to a virtue. I have taken note on this thread how quickly Judaism and Judaizers joined forces. Yesterday they were at odds over Christ, now, Moses trumps even Christ. Puts me in mind of this verse...
"And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together:for before they were at enmity between themselves," Luke 23:12.
I'm going to bed. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, learn to resolve the apparent contradictions in the Bible. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, only to those who don't understand. Goodnight all.
The story of how Western monotheism developed is fascinating because it influences so much at how we look at the world today. Thought that I would join in the discussion with a fairly long post.
Early Judaism did not view Yahweh as the only god, but as the god who had chosen the Jewish people as his own. In that sense they were much like many other religious groups around the Mediteranian, though they early on they came to the fundamental realization that Yahweh was too transendent to be represented in the form of a physical idol.
The Exodus created a unique loyalty of the Jewish people to Yahweh, but they expressed that loyalty in much the same way that the other inhabitants of Caanan worshiped their gods - through blood sacrifice. Though in the story of Abraham and Isaac, Yahweh ultimately rejects the idea of a human sacrifice, Abraham proved his faithfulness through his readiness to take that ultimate step. In Old Testament Israel, Jews expressed their loyalty to Yahweh through the symbolic sacrifice of animals, just the lamb took Isaac's place.
During the times of Judges and Kings, Jewish people worshipped their god Yahweh in much the same way that other Caananites worshiped their gods such as Baal and Ishtar, with the important exception that pagan worship still involved actual human sacrifice. The word that Jesus frequency used for hell, 'Gehenna', derives its name from a valley east of Jerusalem where Baal-worshipers performed child sacrifice until just a few hundred years before his time.
Throughout Judges, Samuel, Kings and Chronicles, the history of this period is told from the perspective that the fate of the Jewish people and nation is intimately tied to their faithfulness to Yahweh. Leaders who divided their loyalty among other gods, including Solomon, invariably led the nation into disaster. If a similar account of the Philistine people's history survived, it might have reflected a similar loyalty to Baal.
One of the key events that led Judaism to evolve in a distinctly different way from neighboring religions was the Babylonian exile. Most Jews actually remained behind in Israel, but several thousand of the political and religious leaders were taken to Babylon as more or less hostages. For the several decades of exile, these leaders had a great deal of time on their hands to think about the problem of how such a disaster could have befallen Yahweh's chosen people. The result was a maturing of spiritual insight which led this group beyond the primitive "my god can beat up your god" belief system, to the more transcendent belief that the god who they had known as Yahweh was actually the one and only universal God.
From the end of the Babylonian exile onward, Jews had a fundamentally different view of religion than any pagan sect. Jews believed that they had a special relationship with God, and that God would certainly want the Jewish people to have a nation that was independent and successful, provided that the Jewish nation behaved righteously. However, to a much greater extent than in the earlier Davidic kingdoms, Jews now believed that God had purposes far beyond the success or failure of any earthly government. As servants of the one universal God, Jews could find spiritual meaning apart from the nation. Individual Jews would now form communities to practice their religion regardless of the the success or failure of the Jewish nation. The concept that the Jewish religion did not stand or fall with the Jewish nation was fairly unique in the region.
This evolution of belief created the Jewish world that Jesus was born into. Although Christian tradion often views Jesus as coming to a conquered and impoverished nation, it may be more accurate to say that Jesus came into a nation that had achieved a degree of prosperity and influence within the Roman empire, but was in danger of losing its soul. The Macabees had thrown off Greek rule around the same time as the Romans were finishing off Carthage in the Punic Wars, but then evolved into the Hasmonian dynasty. During the Roman civil war following the assasination of Julius Ceasar, Herod 'the Great' had skillfully manuevered to create a Jewish nation that was quasi-independent and relatively influential within the Roman Empire.
Unlike most of their neighbors, the Jews of Jesus' time had not been conquered by the Roman military. However, Herod's dynastic ambitions required that the Jewish religion should be pressed into the service of the Jewish political establishment. This reversal of the legacy of the Babylonian exile produced great resentment, and led to the formation of multiple religious communities within the broader Jewish nation. These communities that all considered themselves 'Jewish', but often held quite different beliefs.
The Saducees dominated the Jerusalem religious and political heierarchy. They were the beneficiaries of Herod's political patronage and the commercial opportunities that Herod's alliance with the Roman Empire created. Herod's Temple was an architectural wonder. Roman transportation and security allowed for a sizeable level of 'religious tourism', in which pilgrims traveled from through the Easter Mediteranean to participate in the religious spectacle of the temple. These pilgrims brought revenues, but the solemn tradition of animal sacrifice now took on the atmosphere of an open-air barbecue. Many devout Jews resented this commercialization of their religion, observed that the Temple had become a 'den of thieves', and looked for ways to practice their religion independent of this corruption.
The Pharisees, who take a verbal beating in the Gospels, were actually a reform movement that sought to lesson the importance of temple sacrifice through increased emphasis on personal righteousness. The Pharisees and Saducees both agreed that misfortune was caused disobedience to the law, but they disagreed on what to do about sin. The Saducees encouraged attonement for sin through animal sacrifice, which was in accord with Mosaic tradition and profitable too. The Pharisees sought to lessen dependence on the centralized Temple hierarchy by reducing the need for sacrifice. This involved rigorous compliance with the detailed prescriptions of Mosaic law, with a fastidiousness that earned them the scorn of the writers of the Gospels. By moving worship away from the Temple and encouraging the study and interpretation of the Torah, they also were forefathers of rabbinical Judaism which developed after the destruction of the Temple.
Other groups such as the Zealots viewed themselves as heirs to the legacy of the Maccabees, advocating armed resistance to Roman rule and the associated corruption. They would eventually get their way in 67 A.D., with disastrous results.
The Essenes were a fairly small faction within the Jewish community of Jesus' day, but were uniquely important in the development of the early Christian community. Like the Zealots, they radically rejected the practices of the Temple hierarchy and believed that the nation and world faced impended appocalypse; however, they expressed this belief through asceticism rather than violence. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. The Dead Sea scrolls were authored by the Qumron Essene community and provide added historical context for many of the early Christian writings. There is no proof that Jesus himself was a member of the Essene community, but some of his closest followers may have been.
In his role as Jewish 'King', Herod had bought peace, prosperity and influence at the cost of Roman hegemony. The Sadducees accepted this arrangement, running the risk of 'gaining the world but losing their souls'. Other Jewish factions rejected this bargain in various ways. The Zealots pursued armed resistence. The Essenes dropped out of Jewish society and eventually out of history. The Pharisee party focused on the development of a detailed moral framework independent of ritual sacrifice, thereby laying the foundations of rabinical Judaism. The Christian community believes the sacrifical death of Jesus forever replaces the ritual attonement accomplished through sacrifice.
Of these various traditions, only Christianity and rabbinical Judaism survived the Roman suppression of the Jewish revolt in 70 A.D. Paul became a central figure in the development of Christianity, partly because the Jewish segments of the Christian community in residing in Judea were wiped out. In the wake of the disastrous revolt, both the early Christians and the founders of rabbinical Judaism sought to distance themselves from the unpopular leaders of the Jewish rebellion. In the process of separating themselves from their roots in the Jewish nation, they also sundered themselves from each other.
However, both grew out of the same tiny but marvelously insightful religious community that gifted the world with an understanding that God is big enough to reign over an entire universe, yet personal enough endow each individual life with meaning. May we use this season to rediscover and celebrate our shared values and spiritual traditions.
bttt
I don't want to type for 30 minutes and get the question wrong, but I'll take a stab at what I think you are asking.
Jesus was the promised one, so He had to be born a Jew. The bloodline was absolutely mandatory to prove He was the one. That's where all the "begats" come in the Bible, to prove Jesus was of the line of David, Isac, Abraham, etc. It wasn't Joesph, but Mary who was the relation. God set forth His Law in the OT to show the Jews who Jesus was when He came. Passover was the story of the death angel passing over houses with the lamb's blood on the door posts. To a Christian, Jesus was the Lamb, the house is us, and the door posts of our hearts are covered in His blood, ergo no death angel for us. Each Feast represents a spiritual truth about Jesus' coming. He is our "First Fruit" and our "Light of the World"(Tabernacles), etc. Each commandment that God gave that the Jews must keep these feasts were to prove who Jesus was before He came. Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus didn't understand spiritual matters because He was supposed to be a spiritual man. If you do not have the Holy Spirit, "You are spiritually dead and cannot understand spiritual things.
Most Christians believe Jesus healed the sick and performed miracles because He's a nice guy. The reason He did those things was to make a spiritual point. If you are dead(spiritually), He can resurrect you, if you are blind, you will see, deaf, you will hear, etc. How can dead people understand a spiritual being with a dead spirit. He did the best He could by saying, He was the Word made flesh, The Light of the world, Living fountain, Lamb of God, etc. It is a whole Bible study just to find all the different names of God and prove that Jesus and only Jesus fulfilled each and every one. If you learn as much as you can about the Bible's OT, you cannot help but recognize Jesus as Messiah. If you can't, then you are still dead, blind, cripple and deaf. Jesus is the only one that can heal you, I cannot. When we argue on these forums, I have trouble seeing Jesus in the arguer's. Acrimony won't ever let you see Jesus in a Christian. If you do, however, ever see Jesus, He is irresistible and you will convert. The senseless bickering about evolution is an example. If you are a believer, then God isn't a liar. If you believe in evolution, then you will believe anything but God. They say I am close minded, and I ask them to listen carefully to what they want me to believe. I came from apes, microbes, pond scum, etc. There is zero proof of any of that, yet they insist I'm an idiot, Then they turn around and say God could have cause me to evolve from pond scum. Well, yes, I guess so, but HE told me how it happened, and I'm required to believe Him to be righteous. Abraham and Noah found favor in Gods eyes, not because they were good, but because they believed.
Jesus taught the Bible OT in the Synagogue and explained what the OT stories meant. That is what fascinated the Rabbi's of the day. When He taught them, the words had a meaning other than what they thought.
The Jews were chosen by God to reveal the coming of Jesus. They are not chosen because they are good or better. Anyone that is not "born again", Jew or Gentile, will have to be judged on their own righteousness. Jesus was very clear on this subject. He said "There is none good, no not one." Your righteousness is as filthy(menstrual) rags to God. When you stand before God, there will only be 1 question, "Do I know you?" If you are "grafted in" or adopted in, you are a child of God, treated as royalty, a bride to His Son. If not, you will burn in Hell, I don't care how "good" you think you are. It isn't about denomination, race, or religion. You must know Him personally or you can't get in.
That's the hard part for the world. They cannot believe God would destroy a "good" Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, you name it. Being saved isn't about church, or race, it's about knowing God, serving God, loving God, and believing God. How would you feel if your wife thought you were a liar and never obeyed you? That is why God chose those allegories to show us how He feels about us. When He called Israel an adulterous nation, He wasn't referring to sexual sin. The Bible uses words like Whore, Bride, Lamb, Wedding, Bridegroom,etc, to invoke the same feelings in you that He has for us. He is wooing you before you even know Him. He comes after you, He saves you, He heals you of your sin, He does it all, you do nothing, lest you boast.
Well, its late and I can't see anymore. I hope this answered something in your heart. If you seek Him, He will reveal Himself to you, and you will forever change. If you just want to argue, well, I'm sure you will have many takers.
P.S. If you want more, Private reply is fine. I check every couple of days and never tire of bragging about my Lord to anyone that will listen. Kinda like a proud grampa flopping out a string of pictures of grandkids. I do get tired of arguing though. God bless you for asking about Him.
You're obviously not that bright, or well-read, but your Arminian nonsense about John Calvin is just that: NONSENSE.
Wither a *ping to such discussions?
The only Bible Jesus read was the Torah.
Happy Easter and Purim to All!
I'll do that, and thanks for the prod.
uhm...where was the lamb? Are you thinking about the law that said if you were unable to attend the Passover you could participate in one 30 days later?
Thank you for that information. I was not aware of that. I did know that there were many Believers killed by the Nazis but was not aware that they were of the Evangelical ilk. YEA for the Evangelicals!
ping
As a Jew, I have theological differences with messianic believers. But I certainly see them as being far closer to the original intent of the early Nazarene movement than what over the course of centuries evolved into 'orthodox' Christianity.
Outstanding post! Thanks.
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