House Calling Emergency Session to Vote on Schiavo Legislation; Senate Passes Bill First

AP ^ | 3/20/05 | Jim Abrams

[supercat]

The federal courts will reject jurisdiction of a state probate case. For a bunch that cries "states' rights" and "keep the courts out of state affairs," the political pirates are very keen on demanding intervention in one of the most basic of all purely state issues; the decisison on probate matters.

This isn't a probate matter. This is a question of whether a judge has the right to kill a person on the basis of very loosely corroborated self-serving hearsay evidence remembered (or invented) years after the fact, particularly when such evidence is contradicted not only by the woman's family members, but even by the lead witness' earlier testimony.

Once Terri is out of immediate danger, there should also be some question as to why Michael is allowed to treat her as his property. The Thirteenth Amendment frowns on such treatment of people not convicted of crimes and is also congressionally enforceable.

[PFKEY]

The judge and husband have hysterically refused such tests

These are two pretty power guys or is the diagnosis of the 2 doctors sufficient? It appears it is because this is the diagnosis that is allowing for her feeding tube to be removed for the third time.

And in all these years not a single lawsuite that I am aware of has been brought against these two doctors. Why do you think that is? I would guess that it is because there is no basis for a lawsuite for malpractice.

[PFKEY]

Regardless, the guardian ad litem WAS NOT PROVIDED FULL ACCESS TO ALL MEDICAL RECORDS. You discredit the dozens of doctors and hold up the g.a.l.

I haven't read anywhere he was requested them and was denied. But it is certainly possible as I haven't read all the supporting documents.

I appears that he did not feel they were necessary for him to render his diagnosis.

These dozens of doctors for speak of are they the sames ones who mearly viewd the video and rendered their opinion?

Sad as it is the g.a.l's opinion counts and not these dozen doctors you speak of and the doctors whos opinion counts in this case have diagnosed Terri as PVS.

[kjenerette]

As a fromer U.S. Congressional aide I am proud that the Congress is 'stepping up' by pushing this bill!

Endangered tree frogs and sea turtles have more federal recourse to be 'heard' in the system than this disabled woman...where is the wisdom of Solomon?

The Democrats fighting this bill are showing their 'true' selves tonite....

[exDemMom]

The PVS debate is the wrong one. The messure should not be her present quality of life, i.e., whether she is curable, etc. but that who she is as she is must be respected as a disabled and handicapped person.

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!

[nicmarlo]

the g.a.l. is NOT a neurologist, is he? Why would I take the word of a lawyer to diagnose the medical condition of a disabled person?

[PFKEY]

the g.a.l. is NOT a neurologist, is he? Why would I take the word of a lawyer to diagnose the medical condition of a disabled person?

Wolfson, who has a law degree and a PhD and is a distinguished service professor of public health and medicine at the University of South Florida

Also he was appointed by the State of Florida when Jeb Bush interviened back in 2003.

Now Jeb and the Fl Legislature are going to appoint a person who is against Terri's Law and is pro death to be a neutral arbiter.

[exDemMom]

My present husband and I have decided that unless we have flatlined, cerebrally, and have to be on a respirator, we do not want to be terminated.

Good post. And I'm sorry about your first husband.

It certainly looks like the only way to protect oneself is to have a living will, since anymore, the law won't automatically do it. What a shame.

[nicmarlo]

But it's okay that he didn't have access to ALL of Terri's medical records, or current medical condition? It's okay that the Judge ignored his recommendation that she receive therapy to swallow?

Preposterous, you still are, death troll.

[PFKEY]

But it's okay that he didn't have access to ALL of Terri's medical records, or current medical condition? It's okay that the Judge ignored his recommendation that she receive therapy to swallow?

It's not okay in my opinion but appearently it is/was okay or satisfactory for the State of Florida.

Back to name calling again...sigh!

[nicmarlo]

You stubbornly persist in the "right to die" and that's not even what this is about. Terri's not dying naturally. She's being MURDERED.

[PFKEY]

It must be tough trying to agrue a case where the facts are not on your side. Maybe name calling is the only thing that makes you feel good.

I would not want to deprive you of a little joy so please feel free to continue calling me names.

[nicmarlo]

The facts in this case are TERRI IS BEING MURDERED VIA DEHYDRATION AND STARVATION BY A HUSBAND WHO IS LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN BY WHOM HE'S HAD TWO CHILDREN. That is a fact.

She is not dying. That is a fact.

She is NOT in a PVS state, as determined by 14 doctors, including 6 neurologists.

[PFKEY]

We've had this discussion before but you are to blinded by emotion to comprehend.

I am not a "right to die" advocate, I am not pro abortion. I do not want Terri murdered.

You are just upset and want someone to call names to make you feel better. Like I said before go ahead if it helps. I'm tough I can handle it.

[nicmarlo]

The facts of this case, are that there are Violations of Florida Statutes Committed against Terri Schiavo which Michael Schaivo and Greer are GUILTY of committing or allowing to be commited against her.

[PFKEY]

The facts in this case are TERRI IS BEING MURDERED VIA DEHYDRATION AND STARVATION BY A HUSBAND WHO IS LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN BY WHOM HE'S HAD TWO CHILDREN. That is a fact.

Well, actually her husband is not murdering her. The people at hospice are with the blessing of the State of Florida.

[nicmarlo]

You're a joke. Michael Schaivo is GUILTY, just as much as a a someone who hires a hit man to commit murder. His hands are UNCLEAN and you know it.

[PFKEY]

The facts of this case, are that there are Violations of Florida Statutes Committed against Terri Schiavo which Michael Schaivo and Greer are GUILTY of committing or allowing to be commited against her.

Why has no one filed a lawsuite?

Do you have any legal standing to do it on her behalf?

If not then who does and why hasn't it happened yet? What are "they" waiting for?

[reformedliberal]

Don't be so sure. Recently there was a case where several MDs testified that a group of patients in a class action lawsuit had damaged lungs from silicosis. These physicians had all been paid to review Xrays of the lungs. IIRC, the physicians all backtracked and said they weren't aware of the diagnosis they were being asked to confirm, or something similar to that excuse. I believe they were all determined to have participated in fraud. (someone else may recall this and can correct me, here.)

MDs are not little gods and neither are judges....or legislatures. The MDs who have gone on record against Terri must be rooting for the FL judge. If further extensive testing shows Terri is simply in a minimally conscious state, they are going to look incompetent. All the Congress is asking is for a Federal Court review.

Unfortunately, I have participated in chronic pain groups where I have witnessed unprofessional behavior from physicians. Most RNs have also witnessed similar behavior. There are diagnoses in medicine that are known as *wastebasket diagnoses*. These are what are pulled out and presented when the physicians really just don't know, but the patient and the family demand something concrete. I am beginning to think that various descriptions of cognitive states may be this sort of diagnoses.

Don't forget that Terri has won 2 malpractice suits, which were the source of the trust fund she ended up with. I will bet that the MDs in FL are going to be more cautious in future when giving expert testimony on anything they haven't researched and tested to the point of absolute certainty and they will be reluctant to go on record in similar cases in future.

Don't make the mistake of arguing from authority, especially at second or third hand. Conventional wisdom is disproved daily as our knowledge increases. To argue from the moral points is probably every bit as accurate, if not more so, than to invoke the prior medical or judicial decisions.

Most of us feel we do not want to be in a dependent or disabled state. But I have known many such people and few of them feel that way about their own lives. Humans are designed to want to live. I would assume that if Terri is even minimally conscious, she also wants to live. Until she can be asked and, with therapy, advance to a stage where she can answer, no one should err on the side of deprivation of life.

This is not just about one woman. It is about everyone who is disabled and at some point, that can be any of us and it can happen in a nanosecond. Even someone who loves the disabled person can be intimidated by a physician or a judge or can be overwhelmed when a dire future is detailed to them. I have been in that position. I found that even then, even without the knowledge that we have today, I could not take the responsibility to decide if someone I loved should live or die. I was not capable of taking any action against life. I was literally unable to speak or move.

I am shocked in this case at the ease with which the husband can make this decision. When I was in this situation, the interview on quality of life necessitated by my husband's desire for a DNR order, was grueling. He had to speak a couple of times with a psychologist. I, his family, and his medical attendants were questioned by two MDs, with a 3rd MD listening in via speaker phone on every minute detail of his daily life. Remember, this was someone who woke from a coma and was cognitively able. He was only 38. Still, just to be able to enter a DNR on his chart took several days of interviews by a team of physicians. Had they decided he was simply depressed by illness and being in hospital, I am sure they would not have allowed his own decision while in a precarious state. That was the impression I had, at least.

[PFKEY]

You're a joke. Michael Schaivo is GUILTY, just as much as a a someone who hires a hit man to commit murder. His hands are UNCLEAN and you know it.

And just when are the murder charges going to pressed?

I guess after she is dead would be appropriate.

But if what you say is true then why has no one pressed attempted murder charges?

Because by law neither is the case.

Having said that abortion is legal and I too consider it murder so in that regard I agree with what you are saying but for you and I to say it is murder doesn't make it such in the eyes of the law. Sad.