HUTCHISON Amendment (#218) would fund 2,000 border agents.

Thomas ^ | 3-17-05 | Senator HUTCHISON

[Fatalis]

So much for the outlandish claim that 70% of forum participants think some form of guest worker program is the best way to fix illegal immigration.

For the record, a little over 10% think that and don't have the aptitude to comprehend the truth.\

To be fair, Howlin didn't claim that 70% thought a guest worker program was the "best way" to solve the illegal alien problem. She said " Almost SEVENTY PERCENT of the MEMBERS of this forum approve of SOME KIND of worker's program."

The problem I have with that claim is that the poll she cited only adds up to 59.7% support for some kind of guest worker program.

The polls you and she have cited aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I support a Tancredo style guest worker program, but believe the first order of business is to beef up and enforce existing laws, which was also Howlin's first priority.

[FBD]

>"I just never realized that having someone in your family serve in the military gave you the right to completely mischaracterize other people's opinions and posts."<

Whoops sorry, I lumped you in with Mo1, who was criticizing happy for complaining about our border agents being in Iraq, instead of on our own border, where they are sorely needed.

I'm getting so used to seeing robots and hyenas attack anyone who disagrees with Pres. Bush's Mexico/border/ immigration policy (or lack of one) that I lumped you in with her.
My apologies.

But it is pretty easy to roboticaly jump all over someone who *dares* to *question* President Bush's policies, when you don't really have anything or anyone to lose isn't it?

>"I'll make a note of it."<

-Please do.

Thanks.

[Howlin]

To be fair, Howlin didn't claim that 70% thought a guest worker program was the "best way" to solve the illegal alien problem. She said " Almost SEVENTY PERCENT of the MEMBERS of this forum approve of SOME KIND of worker's program."

Well, I thank you for pointing that out, not that it makes any difference to the posters on this thread.

[Howlin]

I'm getting so used to seeing robots and hyenas attack anyone who disagrees with Pres. Bush's Mexico/border/ immigration policy (or lack of one)

Of course, you realize that the exact same thing happens to the ones of us who don't agree with the militant stance taken by some on these threads, right?

[Fatalis]

You're welcome, though I still think there's a problem with your 70% figure.

[Mo1]

Since that time, over 2100 Iraqi border control officers have been trained. The training began with basic classroom instruction and progressed to field exercises. The courses taught include border security tactics, human rights, defensive tactics training, weapons training, vehicle searches, as well as basic customs and immigration activities. The Iraqi officials CBP trained are now putting these skills to use at their country’s ports of entry.

Ok .. I'll admit I was a bit off on my thinking with regard to the Border Agents in Iraq

By that link you posted Fatalis .. it sounds like some there sent to TEACH Iraqis to better patrol the borders over there and keep the terrorists from coming in

Do you have a problem teaching Iraqis to help prevent terrorists from Iran and Syria that want to harm OUR soldiers?

[Fatalis]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't have a problem with teaching Iraqis about border control in principle, but since in the bigger picture our own border enforcement is inadequate, there is sort of an irony there when we're diverting CBP agents to Iraq while President Bush is seeking to underfund new BP hiring by 90%.

[Mo1]

Whoops sorry, I lumped you in with Mo1, who was criticizing happy for complaining about our border agents being in Iraq, instead of on our own border, where they are sorely needed.

FYI .. I asked a question

But let's not get facts in the way of name calling

[Mo1]

I don't have a problem with teaching Iraqis about border control in principle, but since in the bigger picture our own border enforcement is inadequate, there is sort of an irony there when we're diverting CBP agents to Iraq while President Bush is seeking to underfund new BP hiring by 90%.

Did we send all our BP's over there?

Did we send half our BP's over there ?

Or did some go over there to TEACH the Iraqis on how to stop the terrorists from trying to harm and kill our troops??

IMO ... I don't see a problem in sending some BP over there to help.

Maybe others do .. but I don't

[FBD]

>"Of course, you realize that the exact same thing happens to the ones of us who don't agree with the militant stance taken by some on these threads, right?"

Yes, and it's just as wrong...and I've sent FR mail to those who attack people like that. This is a very contentious subject, and folks get a little wound up on this subject at times. As someone who has had a couple close friends victimized by illegal aliens (hit and run, no insurance), and gang bangers,(friend's son shot in the chest, killed) it's a very emotional subject for me.

But I'm trying to be civil. Please note, that I've never called you slanderous names, like "illegal alien lover", etc, and I don't think you are.

But in all sincerity, I think there are many folks who automaticaly go into attack mode, whenever they perceive President Bush to be criticized, for anything. This border issue is one area of the Presidents policies, that many think he is failing. I have talked with several police officers in my area, and they just scratch their heads, when trying to figure out his border policy, especially when we are at war with a fanatical religious sect hell bent on destroying the U.S.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ` Teddy Roosevelt

[JustAnAmerican]

Actually Howlin pointed to a poll that for all intents and purposes is null and void. It was proceeded by a poll that sought to clear up the polling on the subject(posted by Jim), see #115. Had she posted without knowing about the updated poll, it could have been considered a mistake. But the thread suggesting the original poll was not very clear on the subject had her posts all over it.

She knew about the updated poll and still decided to base her assumption on the original poll. As evidenced by post #117 as well as this thread Free Republic guest worker poll is busted

In essence only 10 percent of the 5000+ polled here support any sort of guest worker program.

[Howlin]

Actually Howlin pointed to a poll that for all intents and purposes is null and void.

You mean because you don't like the results?

Have you so quickly forgotten that you can get the poll numbers you want by the way it's worded?

[Howlin]

I know you haven't called me those names; but they sure float around here like gnats.

I'm still waiting for a response OR apology for this one:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1364652/posts?page=84#84

[JustAnAmerican]

"You mean because you don't like the results?"

Nope, because the original was ambiguous at best, so Jim posted an updated version, unless of course you are saying that the 5000+ that voted on the updated poll do not exist? You did note the question #5 on the updated poll correct? But just in case you missed it.

Some form of guest worker program 10.4%.

[Fatalis]

Actually Howlin pointed to a poll that for all intents and purposes is null and void. It was proceeded by a poll that sought to clear up the polling on the subject(posted by Jim), see #115. Had she posted without knowing about the updated poll, it could have been considered a mistake. But the thread suggesting the original poll was not very clear on the subject had her posts all over it.

She knew about the updated poll and still decided to base her assumption on the original poll. As evidenced by post #117 as well as this thread Free Republic guest worker poll is busted

Howlin cited the second and more valid poll, though her 70% figure overstates things by 10%. I should know which poll has the more valid wording, since I wrote the thread about the first busted poll that you linked above.

In essence only 10 percent of the 5000+ polled here support any sort of guest worker program.

You've misunderstood the poll results because you haven't paid attention to the question. You're getting your "only 10%" figure from a poll that asked Which of the following is the best way to solve the illegal immigration problem?

Neither Howlin nor I believe that a guest worker plan is the "best way" to solve the problem, though I support a guest worker program as part of a comprehensive solution. I'm not clear right now where Howlin stands on the various guest worker plans.

[Howlin]

Try to pay attention:

Free Republic Opinion Poll: Do you approve of the president's guest worker plan?

Member Opinion
Definitely not. A guest worker program will not work.	38.9%		1,041
Yes, but illegal aliens must go home first and apply for entry.	28.4%		761
Maybe, but it needs a lot of work.	18.8%		503
Yes, will be fine as is or with minor changes.	8.1%		217
Undecided, other, pass.	5.9%		157
	100.1%		2,679
Ok, one more time: Would you approve of a guest worker program as planned or with amendments:
Member Opinion
I would approve of a guest worker program if it requires illegals to go home first and apply for entry	27.0%		938
I would not approve of a guest worker program of any kind	20.4%		710
I would approve of a guest worker plan similar to Tancredo's	15.2%		530
I approve of the president's guest worker plan as is or with minor changes	8.8%		305
I might approve of a compromise guest worker program with some of Tancredo's ideas incorporated	8.6%		298
I don't like the wording of this poll and decline to participate	7.7%		266
Immigration from Mexico should not be allowed under any circumstances	7.5%		262
Undecided, other, pass	4.8%		167
	100.0%		3,476
Those are the results when the question is ONLY about guest worker's programs. And I only counted members because I don't care about people who log off and vote.

[Seattle Conservative]

Agreed. In addition, I just saw a report on FNC that showed kids getting out of school and getting on a bus and a trolley to go home to Mexico. What is up w this??? This is the 1st time of heard of it happening. So, in addition to paying for education, healthcare, etc., etc. for illegals, we're now paying for education for Mexican children???? This is ridiculous unless their parents or the Mexican government is contributing $1.2k per child (I think that's what the said the CA education costs are).

[JustAnAmerican]

Per Post #48,
Howlin Said:

Almost SEVENTY PERCENT of the MEMBERS of this forum approve of SOME KIND of worker's program.

What part of that, which is what see based her threads on here, did I misunderstand?

[Howlin]

I'm not clear right now where Howlin stands on the various guest worker plans.

I support some sort of guest worker program because if we don't have one, nothing will be done.

[JustAnAmerican]

I was basing my posts on what you said in #48. Now had you worded it as such , 70% of the people on this forum that want a guest workers program want "Such and such", then I would have had to agree. However that is not what you said, you said "Almost SEVENTY PERCENT of the MEMBERS of this forum approve of SOME KIND of worker's program".

Big difference there, the 1st states the obvious, the second states that 70 percent of all people who are on this forum are for a Guest Workers program, which is 100 percent wrong.