Sherlock Holmes and me - (Barbara J. Stock on Ali Sina's debate w. hardcore Islamist)

RENEW AMERICA.US ^ | MARCH 12, 2005 | BARBARA J. STOCK

[mrs tiggywinkle]

**MLK was a myth. Malcolm X was a leader**

How so?

[LauraleeBraswell]

1) You think I'm a shill. I saw that!

Well, The American Puritans were VERY intolerant of other religious groups. Puritans were called Puritan because they wanted to "Purify" the church by getting rid of any Catholic influence. They did not like Catholics. And part of their personal beliefs was that they were the chosen people of God because the Jews had lost favor with God. And they were cruel. Look at the Salem witch trials and the punishments for witchcraft.
Look at the prisons. The Puritans were Christian.

Extreme "Islamic" like Punishments included placing heavy stone on a tied down man's chest until his chest collapsed. These punishments were "cruel and unusual" and probably what our founding father's were referring to when they outlawed these penalties.



An excerpt from Nathanial Hawthorns The Scarlett Letter "http://www.hawthorneinsalem.org/Literature/Quakers&Witches/Quakers/MMD513.html"



An account on three quaker women who were beaten and hung by Puritans. Congregationalists were a sect of puritans.
http://www.dover.lib.nh.us/DoverHistory/whippingofthequakerwomen.htm

And England's religious identity Crisis post Henry the 8th. First it was Catholics being burned at the stake then Protestants being burned at the stake, and it was on and off for years, and those were the nice penalize. Mary Queen of Scots did not earn the nickname "Bloody Mary" for her compassion.
France is also an example of widespread persecution of Christians BY Christians.

I will say that during Puritan Oliver Cromwell's martial law reign of England, all other religions were tolerated EXCEPT Catholic. Christianity has also done countless wonderful things for the world too, I am not discounting that. But, these are some of the things done in God's name. I should make the point that pre Westernism (Westernism as we know it today) these horrible things happened under Christianity.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

It is very unfortunate that a few (and it was a few Puritans) that instigated the Salem Witch Trials. In each group of people, be it religious or secular, there are bad eggs. To lump an entire group by the actions of a select few is unwise.

The Puritans desired to experience religious liberty apart from the religion enforced by the King of England or the Roman Catholic church. Coming to the new land was the opportunity to do just that.

It is unfortunate that you seemingly concentrate on the acts of a few rather than the positive aspects of the majority...

[mrs tiggywinkle]

Further...

1) Why do you believe Martin Luther King, Jr was a myth?

2) Why do you believe Malcolm X was a great leader?

3) Will you be looking into the book selections I suggested?

[mrs tiggywinkle]

Where did I call you a shill? I don't recall doing that.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

disregard post 25. I found my post agreeing with someone else about you being a shill. I stand by it.

[LauraleeBraswell]

" It is unfortunate that you seemingly concentrate on the acts of a few rather than the positive aspects of the majority...""


That's my point. We concentrate on the minority of Muslims who do these horrific things. Remember, not all Muslims are terrorists but mostly all terrorists are Muslim.

[nickcarraway]

How do you figure the Puritans were fleeing the Roman Catholic Church? In the country the Puritans came from being a Roman Catholic was illegal. Being a priest or sheltering a priest was punishable by death. Catholic weren't allowed to go to universities or be in government. Etc. Puritans had it much better off.

[LauraleeBraswell]

1) Martin Luther King Jr- you know how history is rewritten. We know that he was a plagiarizer, an adulterer, and guess what he was probably a communist too. This was before the democratic party was communist. You've heard about how the FBI was on his case? Well, it was at the direction of attorney general Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy made Joe McCarthy his daughter's godfather (this was in the 50s when they worked together) While Joe McCarthy was later slandered (he was a hero), Bobby Kennedy still held a VERY anti communist position.


It could all be a misunderstanding, but we won't know until 2027 when Kings files are allowed to be opened.

[LauraleeBraswell]

The Puritans were not fleeing the Catholic church.

The Puritans wanted to "Purify" the Anglican chruch of any Catholic influence. When Henry the eigth converted the country he still kept some Catholic rituals in place. The Puritans had a problem with this.

[LauraleeBraswell]

""Catholics weren't allowed to go to universities or be in government. Etc. Puritans had it much better off.""

Yep, and then the Catholics took power under Bloody Mary and killed a bunch of protestants. They were killing eachother all over the place.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

Why do you believe MalcolmX was a great leader?

[LauraleeBraswell]

Malcolm X said a good many things that rang true. The times were turbulent, and he had a lot of anger, but he evolved. I think after his pilgrimage to Mecca when he really discovered what Islam was he was at his best. And he probably would have continued evolving had he not been shot. Your entitled to your own opinion of him.


But my point was, that he was a common criminal who was reformed through Islam.

This Radical Islamofascism was really established around 30 years ago. I feel that when we condemn Islam, we also relinquish all hope that these people will embrace freedom. If Islam is at odds with freedom, can we really expect people to embrace it?

The actions of Terrorists on 9/11 were those of a minority. Had all Islamics felt this way, we would not have emerged victorious in Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not saying we should be blind to the threats or the people that pose these threats. If it was the IRA instead of AlQueda, yes we should be mindful every red haired freckled (just being stereotypical) Irish accented person around us. But we should not condemn them. And just a few days ago, an Islamic Sheik in Brooklyn was found guilty of raising money for foreign terrorist organization. So, yes we have to be aware.

Just think about it,

Many of the people in these Islamic countries have really been isolated from the rest of the world. Think of where the world was 200 hundred years ago. Think of where the rest of the world would be had Democracy been confined to the US and we were all isolated from one and other. Information is shared through trade and travel and people.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

While I strongly disagree with you about MalcolmX, I *do* agree that the 911 terrorists do not make up the larger part of Islam.

MalcolmX spoke hate against Christians and Jews. His followers have never lost sight of that and continue his mantra to this day.

[xone]

'We often say that Mohammad was a pedophile, but wasn't the virgin Mary around 12 when she was impregnated'

So you are saying the Holy Spirit was a pedophile?

[LauraleeBraswell]

No.

At that time in history, childhood was very short because the average lifespan was very short.

[xone]

'We often say that Mohammad was a pedophile, but wasn't the virgin Mary around 12 when she was impregnated'

You, not 'we' brought this equivalency between Mohammed's MHR pedophilia with a 9 yr old 'wife' and compared it to the Virgin birth of Jesus by coming up with a young age for Mary. You have said some inane things before, but even for an 18 yr old Deist from NYC this is a bit much for us cornshuckers in the sticks. You really need to retract this abominable statement.

'because the average lifespan was very short.'
Like Abraham's life?

[LauraleeBraswell]

I don't really believe that Abraham lived to be 900 years old. Do you?

The marriage was consumated when that 9 year old was 12.


Shall we look at the average lifespans of that time?

[xone]

Abraham wasn't 900 and I don't believe the Bible says he was, but I'll go check. Whatever the Bible says agewise I do believe it.

Are you standing by your equivalency of Mohammeds 'marriage/consummation' and the conception of the Christ?

'Shall we look at the average lifespans of that time?'

I suppose NYC has the actuarial data on lifespans in the Middle East back then, but average age doesn't mean one can't exceed it. Since the Catholics keep track of Mary, I'll have to ping some to find out her age at the birth of Christ.

[LauraleeBraswell]

I'm waiting....