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Language Garden - [conversation with an extraordinary orangutan]
Orion Magazine ^ | March/April, 2005 | Susanne Antonetta

Posted on 03/08/2005 6:46:21 PM PST by snarks_when_bored

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A poet's bittersweet account of an encounter with a non-human intelligence.

If we ultimately steal or destroy the habitats of all such entities, we'll be much the worse for it and to some degree undeserving of the dominance we've achieved.

1 posted on 03/08/2005 6:46:27 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

I wonder if he likes cake.


2 posted on 03/08/2005 6:49:22 PM PST by cripplecreek (I'm apathetic but really don't care.)
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To: snarks_when_bored; Slings and Arrows; Thinkin' Gal; annyokie

3 posted on 03/08/2005 6:49:33 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Plus, if we destroy them all, who will rip off our faces and genitals in a fit of simian rage?





Oh, wait...we'll still have Sean Penn. Nevermind.


4 posted on 03/08/2005 6:50:46 PM PST by Petronski (This is the Serengeti, heart of the Dark Continent, where Bar Codes roam free...)
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To: cripplecreek

I'd guess he does.


5 posted on 03/08/2005 6:51:59 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

That was fascinating and beautifully written. Thanks for the post.


6 posted on 03/08/2005 6:52:17 PM PST by pharmamom (So many pings, so little time...)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Joking aside Orangs are much more gentle than the other great apes.


7 posted on 03/08/2005 6:53:36 PM PST by cripplecreek (I'm apathetic but really don't care.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

To steal something - it must be someone else's property. A Mosquito is also an entity. Do not get me wrong, I love nature, not sophistry.


8 posted on 03/08/2005 7:02:08 PM PST by TheHound (You would be paranoid too - if everyone was out to get you.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

What a wonderful, funny, fascinating article. Thank you for posting it.


9 posted on 03/08/2005 7:11:43 PM PST by ellery (Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: TheHound
To steal something - it must be someone else's property. A Mosquito is also an entity. Do not get me wrong, I love nature, not sophistry.

I'm not energetic enough to enter into a long, nuanced discussion of your point. My view is that there are no uniquely privileged entities. The fact that orangutans and other such animals do not speak, and so have no expressed concept of property rights, doesn't seem terribly relevant to the question of whether their habitats should be plundered without regard for their welfare or continuing viability as species.

10 posted on 03/08/2005 7:12:48 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: martin_fierro; TheBigB; Tijeras_Slim; Fierce Allegiance; presidio9
I perused this well-written article with a completely serious mindset until I arrived at the following sentence:

Would an ape troubled by his own shit be too much?

I had to stop right there. :)

11 posted on 03/08/2005 7:13:48 PM PST by Constitution Day ("Marsa Stert is a britch and and I sit on the exhange")
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To: snarks_when_bored

Fascinating.


12 posted on 03/08/2005 7:14:44 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: All
The Chantek website:

Chantek.org

The images don't appear to be loading properly (on my end, anyway).

13 posted on 03/08/2005 7:21:27 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
My view is that there are no uniquely privileged entities.

So as not to use up too much of your energy, I will forego the nuance. On the one hand you dismiss your unique priviledge, then on the other hand, you use that priviledge to defend a habitat. You cannot have it both ways! Either you are the steward for animals, and therefore their superior or you are their equal and are no more responsible for your actions than they are for theirs.

14 posted on 03/08/2005 7:37:45 PM PST by TheHound (You would be paranoid too - if everyone was out to get you.)
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To: TheHound
On the one hand you dismiss your unique priviledge, then on the other hand, you use that priviledge to defend a habitat. You cannot have it both ways! Either you are the steward for animals, and therefore their superior or you are their equal and are no more responsible for your actions than they are for theirs.

By 'uniquely privileged', I mean in the ethical sense. It's clear that humans are superior (meaning 'more capable') in intelligence and behavioral repertoire to the other animal inhabitants of Earth.

15 posted on 03/08/2005 8:29:33 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

Watch it! That thing will bite your balls off!!!!!


16 posted on 03/08/2005 8:31:42 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: "War or Peace...."--)
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To: snarks_when_bored; Cogadh na Siths Girl
My view is that there are no uniquely privileged entities.

Then you've never met me.

I have opposable thumbs, weapons, written language, speech, fire, tools and medicine. All of that makes me uniquely privileged on this planet, anyhow....

Your view is nonsense in light of the arms race that is nature.

17 posted on 03/08/2005 8:35:56 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: "War or Peace...."--)
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To: snarks_when_bored
The opening sentence reminds me of the first lines in "Fear of Flying."
18 posted on 03/08/2005 8:39:42 PM PST by Old Professer (A man's conscience is like his garden, it is his and his alone to tend.)
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To: TheHound

Sophistry is okay the third time around.


19 posted on 03/08/2005 8:42:20 PM PST by Old Professer (A man's conscience is like his garden, it is his and his alone to tend.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Communication between Koko and this fella would be very interesting to study!


20 posted on 03/08/2005 8:43:59 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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