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America's Superpower Status Coming to an End
Newsmax.com ^ | 3/1/05 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 02/28/2005 11:54:16 PM PST by beyond the sea

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To: beyond the sea
Just keep in mind, the lower the dollar goes the greater the pressure there is to buy. What foreign investor wouldn't want to gain say 10 to 15 percent just off of the currency moving back to it's normal level?

Personally I think the move to the Euro is much like the tech stock bubble around 1999. Everyone thinks it is some great investment, but the real numbers of the European economy are worse than our own. If there is a collapse, I suspect it will be the Euro that sets off the problems with the world currency markets.
321 posted on 03/01/2005 7:18:28 AM PST by jps098
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To: Petronski

Gee, I only stayed at a Holiday Inn.


322 posted on 03/01/2005 7:19:04 AM PST by jps098
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To: Petronski
You have a degree in Economics too? Cool.

A lot of good it did me. I'm raising perennials and in the soil every day of my life.... but I love it.

90 hour work weeks from Mid-March through December, then THIS!

Yoi, double yoi!

Hey, Pitt's basketball team finally played a good game last night.

323 posted on 03/01/2005 7:19:42 AM PST by beyond the sea (Barbara Boxer is Barbra Streisand on peyote .....)
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To: Petronski

Is it your position that once the words pass the omniscient ones lips they are to be accepted as truth?


324 posted on 03/01/2005 7:20:30 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: Howlin
You mean he doesn't want arguments against what you and he believe posted here? Sure seems to be a lot of posting going on.

Partisanship kills. Blind partisanship kills blindly.

325 posted on 03/01/2005 7:21:23 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
"How can our economy, whatever its instant state, remain stable"

It doesn't remain stable. There is no reason why it should. Stability is not a virtue, adaptability is, in such matters. The world changes. Economies that adapt to those changes perform well, those that resist them suffer. The overall result of successful adaptation is that more total value is created tomorrow than was created yesterday. 3% more per year, typically.

And the US economy has very unstably seen to that, like clockwork, through initial povertyin a howling wilderness, settlement, slavery, civil war, mass immigration, huge technological changes, world war, collapses of world wide trade, inflation, nuclear threats, changes in currency regimes, stock market crashes, socialist governments, 94% top tax rates, you name it. Our prosperity is not an ephemeral result of secret formulae by remote masters of the universe cabaling in Davos. It is the predictable and systematic consequence of our enourmous efforts to work and our willingness to change what we do and how, as conditions change.

"when we become dependent on the goodwill and continued "friendship" with foreign economies"

You might as readily ask how it is that you can survive when you don't perform subsistence hunting and gathering yourself. You don't depend on the friendship, but on the self interest, of others who perform tasks for you in return for the tasks you perform for them. If you focus simply on making sure you perform useful tasks for others, then you will create new value. And in the large, you will enjoy new value created by others in return - in roughly equal measure. If you are prudent about what you pay for things and what you actually need or want, prudent about when you need it, and conscientious about doing things that others truly want done, then all the rest takes care of itself.

And the US economy as a whole is simply overflowing with these things. We work vastly harder than people in Europe do. We work vastly smarter than people in China do. And we adapt to new developments in the world, more consistently and more thoroughly, than just about any other people on earth - now, or at any time in history. And that is quite sufficent to keep us rich. Whatever the rest of the world thinks or does.

If someone will do something for you cheaper, let them. If they raise the price, look for other ways or get into doing it yourself. It is really not that complicated. But some people worry for a living, others can't stand the fact that free people doing whatever they want actually works fine in the long run, and want to order them around instead. They predict falling skies and tell you to do what they say or else. If you laugh at them, the sky will not fall. They are soothsayers and doomsayers, not wise men.

326 posted on 03/01/2005 7:22:39 AM PST by JasonC
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To: iconoclast

LOL

Who is the omniscient one and where did you get this idea? Surely your talking points flowchart is better than that. Better call your supervisor for instructions.


327 posted on 03/01/2005 7:24:01 AM PST by Petronski (Zebras: Free Range Bar Codes of the Serengeti)
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To: iconoclast

Or perhaps you're saying there are multiple omniscient ones.


328 posted on 03/01/2005 7:25:07 AM PST by Petronski (Zebras: Free Range Bar Codes of the Serengeti)
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To: JasonC
re:

If someone will do something for you cheaper, let them. If they raise the price, look for other ways or get into doing it yourself. It is really not that complicated. But some people worry for a living, others can't stand the fact that free people doing whatever they want actually works fine in the long run, and want to order them around instead. They predict falling skies and tell you to do what they say or else. If you laugh at them, the sky will not fall. They are soothsayers and doomsayers, not wise men.

Excellent, are you sure you're not Rush? Great post.

329 posted on 03/01/2005 7:25:29 AM PST by beyond the sea (Barbara Boxer is Barbra Streisand on peyote .....)
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To: KC_Conspirator
Sure, outsourcing has hurt the overall economy, but our unemployment has dropped to a %5.2 low.

There an article posted (I wish I had bookmarked it) that proved, using cites and analyses of federal reports, that illegal immigrant "employment" is included in those numbers.

330 posted on 03/01/2005 7:25:36 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: beyond the sea

The key to greatness is large families with multiple sons,
a high standard of living, and good education. The government and corporations need to take note of this. An artificially inflated economy, soaring housing costs, and a high-stress society with both spouses working, designed to promote population control, does not advance the "greatness" of America.


331 posted on 03/01/2005 7:31:27 AM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Petronski
The point I get is that you would trade national sovereignty for a television sold locally for $644. That's the modern version of selling Manhattan island for $24 in beads.

Dang!, Petronski.

You take me to the heights of optimism with one post and dump me to the depths with your "clarification".

WE ARE SELLING OUR AMERICAN BIRTHRIGHT TO GLOBALISM FOR A MESS OF POTTAGE!

332 posted on 03/01/2005 7:32:08 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: William Terrell

Are you talking about the Household Survey and the Employer Survey? I guess they would have to include at least the Household Survey. However, I don't know how many employers would claim they put illegal aliens on their illegal payroll. At one time that would be tantamount to admitting breaking the law.


333 posted on 03/01/2005 7:32:23 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: iconoclast
WE ARE SELLING OUR AMERICAN BIRTHRIGHT TO GLOBALISM FOR A MESS OF POTTAGE!

DOGS AND CATS . . . LIVING TOGETHER . . . MASS HYSTERIA!

334 posted on 03/01/2005 7:34:29 AM PST by Petronski (Zebras: Free Range Bar Codes of the Serengeti)
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To: beyond the sea
The British use to build the best products in the world, and then we replaced them with cheaper labor. Japan replaced us with cheaper labor, Indonesia replaced Japan with cheaper labor, and now China is replacing both Japan and Indonesia with cheaper labor. In the early days of worker's unions in the U.S. the companies could meet the demands of the union workers by passing the cost onto the customer but in today's scenario the company cannot do that anymore because the competition from other U.S. companies and foreign companies doesn't allow it. In time China's labor costs will rise and the cycle will continue over and over again. I think this is why we have such a problem getting the government to close the Mexican border, they want the cheap labor to stay competitive and stave off the inevitable. Union workers have two choices,
1. Get it while you can and the hell with what happens to the company.
2. Make drastic concessions and delay the inevitable, but for how long?
335 posted on 03/01/2005 7:36:34 AM PST by TheForceOfOne (Social Security – I thought pyramid schemes were illegal!)
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To: JasonC
Also, the Fed sets the dollar money supply.

Did pre-WW2 Germany not have a central bank?

There are significant differences between our situation and Germany's hyperinflation of the 1920's.

But, there are also frightening similarities.

336 posted on 03/01/2005 7:42:26 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: JasonC
Stability is not a virtue, adaptability is, in such matters.

But adaptability is the method to regain and maintain stability, like the balancing adjustment of a man walking a tightwire.

You don't depend on the friendship, but on the self interest, of others who perform tasks for you in return for the tasks you perform for them.

This is the fallacy of the global trade thought. Ideology and lust for power easily trumps economic self-interest. This is the repeated lesson of history. And the reason for the tale of the goose that laid the golden eggs. The fallacy assumes that all those who come to power in trading nations will be intelligent and ethical.

For the economic good of America, I see no need for any large investment in foreign trade. What does it gain us to lose production capabilities so that we must depend on others for goods, opposed to keeping production capabilities and sell to each other? Peace? See above paragraph.

If history shows anything, it shows that peace is only possible through strength, physical strength.

337 posted on 03/01/2005 7:43:30 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: MrLee
Between them and the Muslims I really wonder about our future....

They've been having high school graduation ceremonies in Arabic for years in Dearborn (according to my sister-in-law that moved out of there).

Correct me if I'm wrong.

338 posted on 03/01/2005 7:47:29 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast
The Germans deliberately engineered the hyperinflation to support a general strike meant to force the French to withdraw from the Ruhr, which they had occupied with an infantry army in an attempt to extract reparation payments by force. The German government did not want to extract the reparations wealth, nor was it willing to raise the money to support the strike through taxation, and its credit was already gone because it was in the process of defaulting on its international obligations. So they raised it through inflation, printing marks and sending them to the striking workers. This rapidly destroyed all confidence in the future value of the mark, and the people took to using other forms of payment - in kind or foreign currency. You don't get such phenomena without deliberate government action to cause it.
339 posted on 03/01/2005 7:52:44 AM PST by JasonC
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To: KC_Conspirator
Apparently employers don't worry too much about it anymore; it's been proven to them it will not be enforced. I don't know which survey, but from my experience, and I am included and know a lot of folks also included in the household survey, is that many are starting small business in their homes because they can't find jobs anymore doing what they were trained to do.

It is my opinion that the employment and unemployment numbers are cooked and spun. Many high paying GS jobs are at stake based on how well the various agencies have run the country, not to mention political careers.

340 posted on 03/01/2005 7:53:08 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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