Posted on 02/27/2005 11:34:56 PM PST by The Loan Arranger
Sure, but I'm talking about the amount of time you can spend working with students. Smaller classes mean that the teacher will have more opportunities for one-on-one sessions.
And your point is????
My point is that to expect all people to share the middle class get ahead and better yourself values is not realistic.
nineth graders aren't necessarily ready to decide what trade they would like for a lifetime career, although, for many, it would be better to put them to work for a three or four years and then let them continue their education when their adolescent phase was over.
Historically, humans have frequently sent their adolescents out to work, either being apprenticed in a trade, fostered out to learn manners and gain more adult allies who would be for them as they grew older.
One would be more ready in ninth grade if one was expected to know by ninth grade. Apprenticeships were a great way to learn a craft and if they came back it would help break the back of the "certificate and certification" education monopoly.
I think the main reason why the school leaving ages creeps up higher and higher is that the powers that be don't want kids on the street.
There are some kids who aren't cut out for academic work. Let them apprentice if they want, take on-line courses if they want, flip burgers if they want or do all of it if they want. Coercing adolescents into going to schools where they don't want to be does no one any favors.
I think it is a power and coersion issue. No one should be in school unless they want to be there. ..I am speaking about after 8th grade. We need to teach our children how to make money, not how to chase grades.
Have a look at their web pages - their mission statement says they prepare you for the 'GLOBAL SOCIETY"
- a perfect global socialist indoctrination facility.
No way can you assume a person will know what they want to do with themselves at 13 or 14. I have done several career changes myself as an adult, and I had the mind and background that allowed me to.
In the old days, when kids were apprenticed off at 12 and 13, people's parents picked for them, and sometimes it was good, and sometimes it was bad. A lot of apprentices ran away. And more than one master was guilty of not teaching them what they needed to really know - the exploiters tended to see the young as cheap labor. So it wasn't as idyllic as it might sound in concept, either.
But on the other hand, I am far from being rah-rah about the current system either.
I am not sure what's the best way to teach young people the technical skills they need.
And I am certain that most people do not get the reading/writing skills they will need in the adult world by the age of 13 or 14. Their brains aren't wired for it yet.
But at the same time, what a lot of them need is not to be locked up in high schools.
It's an interesting conundrum that probably has several good solutions that ought to all be used.
And just because a person as an aptitude for something, doesn't mean this is what they want to make their livelyhood doing. I have an extremely wizbang knack for doing the type of skills professors like in English lit classes.
If you told me I had to be an English Lit teacher, or a film reviewer or some other work that required literary analysis the rest of my life, I would want to die.
Aptitude and heart's desire are clearly two different things.
So you have given up already, eh?
decentralization works.
And just because a person as an aptitude for something, doesn't mean this is what they want to make their livelyhood doing. I have an extremely wizbang knack for doing the type of skills professors like in English lit classes.
If you told me I had to be an English Lit teacher, or a film reviewer or some other work that required literary analysis the rest of my life, I would want to die.
What we begin doing or apprenticing at at 14 is not necessarily what we will end up doing in our lives, but we would learn to be fluid and capable, not aimed or rigid and lost.
So you have given up already, eh?
Given up? On what? It is not my job to parent other people's children.
You are absolutely correct about the extremely small classes being effective. They are. I was responding to the NEA type argument that for every one student less in the classroom then achievement is better. There is absolutely no evidence for that. The correlations are zero between class size and achievement. The effect size is miniscule. That's been documented since at least the 70's.
However your assertion is correct. If you take extremely small classes and and compare them with extremely large classes you get an effect. I agree. I've taught statistics to classes ranging in size from 5 to over 200. For that particular subject and for english composition (using your example) I agree, there's no comparison.
I had a math teacher in the 10th grade who was a former tank commander in the Korean War. I'll never forget what he told the class on our 1st day of school. He said high school is a waste of time and for most of us the only significant memory we will carry with us from high school will be that of losing our virginity.
Who cares?
He'd probably be even more liberal than he is if he had graduated from, say, Haahvahd or Yale.
afterall, if a computer billionaire goes down, its a problem, but just let your plumbing go out......
not all students can be or want to be in the professions...
not all students can be or want to be in the elite jobs..( because afterall, few people can be at the top and few can be rich in a capitalist society)..
and the truth is......only a small minority of people are needed to develop technologies....and the most important work is that which keeps the daily life of Americans running smoothly ie..garbage, the mail, plumbing, electrical, policework,etc... .
but a whole boatload is needed to run and fix that technology and that doesn't necessarily mean college-educated.....
the richest person I know who is a VP of a fairly large technical company has no college at all...but he did go thru Navy computer school years ago....
Given up on the country. And, yes you apparently have. I hope you are happy in your misery.
Given up on the country. And, yes you apparently have. I hope you are happy in your misery.
What does giving up on the country have to do with recognizing that the welfare mommy that government schooling has become is useless?
That prior to this sort of welfare mommy, people schooled because they wanted to earn money or for the challenges ahead...not to punch tickets.
That by letting adolescents live in the real world instead of the cesspools of their peers they will have a better idea of what life provides and needs.
You know, I keep telling myself that, and with his step-father being an 'enterpreneur', I believe that is where he will probably head. I believe what bothers me is the old 'learn from my mistakes' mom thing. I never got to finish college, and am now self taught with nutrition (Harvard and the cleveland clinic along with other legitimate sites are wonderful learning tools!), but I think I just get so angry knowing these goofy teachers just shoved him through. Most times, even though I contacted the teachers and tried to stay on top of things - they always said,'oh, he's doing fine' - then the 'D' would show up on the report card. I guess that is their idea of fine.
College doesn't have to be the way, I just pray each day he finds 'A' way! That's all I can do at this point! Oh, and stick articles and websites like this one in front of his nose! Thanks for the optimistic view!
Here are some Kentucky-based jobs for your son in my field that do not require a college degree and (with training & hard work) pay better than what a physician makes:
http://careers.ameriquest.com/pljb/global_jsp/applicant/SearchAgentMgr/SearchProcess.jsp?pljbHome=/Ameriquest/external/applicant/index.jsp&searchaction=Search
http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=26916453&AVSDM=2005%2D02%2D01+18%3A52%3A14&Logo=1&pg=1&q=loan&lid=439&lid=441&lid=442&lid=28887&sort=dt&vw=b&cy=US&brd=1,1862,1863
http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=26686769&AVSDM=2005%2D02%2D02+09%3A55%3A58&Logo=1&q=loan&lid=439&lid=441&lid=442&lid=28887&sort=dt&vw=b&cy=US&brd=1,1862,1863
http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=22475983&AVSDM=2005%2D02%2D28+09%3A26%3A49&Logo=1&q=loan&lid=439&lid=441&lid=442&lid=28887&sort=dt&vw=b&cy=US&brd=1,1862,1863
http://www.jobsearch.org/seeker/jobsearch/quick?action=JobSearchViewJob&JobSearch_JobId=17209612&JobSearchType=JobSearch
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