Posted on 02/27/2005 8:02:13 PM PST by CHARLITE
"The problem is simple. It is a poorly built truck."
Or it is a poor Auto Technician looking at it.
Always blame the Car/truck.....
This guy needs to learn on how to get things resolved. Being a politician ( or involved in politics ) it seems he would know how to do that.
There are ways to get on the good side of the person on the other side of the counter. One big part of that is giving the serv. writer/ auto tech good info on the problem. From reading this article, there are so many questions I would be asking it would make your head spin. Sometimes it is all just a lack of communication.
Has he tried an independent shop? If he can find a "good" independent to take on this issue, if it is found, I guarantee he could get any repair costs refunded from GM.
Sometimes you just have to take another look at a situation and be proactive. Going back to the same dealer who couldn`t find the problem in the first place is a waste of time. Obviously they cannot find it.
If this guy would give more info on the problem, he may get some helpful info on what the cause may be. There are quite a few very knowledgeable people on this forum ( not claiming to be one of them, just for the record ).
It had a 2.3 liter engine that started life in the Pinto sometime around 1972. They merely upgraded the carb to digital injection.
After about 20k miles, it began to ping. After arguing with the service people who claimed that this was "normal", they finally admitted that they had a fix. There was a jumper plug in the wiring harness under the hood, that when removed retarded the timing and made the ping go away. The problem was that this also made what little performance it had go away too, as well as gas mileage.
The fact that they had installed a jumper at the factory to do this told me that they knew from the beginning that it was going to carbon up and ping. They were just too lazy to reengineer the head design to fix the problem correctly.
Since the truck could not perform as sold and advertized on the window sticker for more than 20k miles, as far as I'm concerned their performance claims were fraud.
I might tolerate a simple "mistake" in a design. But when a Ford truck is designed with a factory "work around" to a problem, rather than fix the cause of the problem, I'm not trusting anything they engineer again.
I have an Isuzu Axiom(half rodeo, half trooper, different body) and I replaced the original death tires(Goodyear Integrity which spun out on anything wet) with some Yokohama's after 12k miles. It took 3 balances(at 3 different shops for $10 bucks a tire each time) before they were tolerable and they still vibrate. After some investigation, I found the same thing you just stated. The vehicle requires extraordinary balancing.
It sounds to me as if this Chevy has the same problem.
Since Chevy dealerships are everywhere, take it to another dealer and explain the situation and ask for their best technician to work on it. I once had a vibration problem on a new Ford and when the original dealership couldn't repair it, I took to a nearby Lincoln dealer who had it fixed under warranty in a couple days. Or track down the best private mechanic in the area and get their opinion, then take it back to Chevy to fix it. You will be out some bucks, but the possibility of getting rid of the vibration goes from zero to maybe 100%. Plus, you'll maybe find a great mechanic to go to if there are any out of warranty problems later.
"American cars have never been better (the 70s and much of the 80s were the worst for US cars), but still, US cars are designed to wear out and be replaced in a relatively short time. That is not the philosphy with some manufacturers like Lexus/Toyota, which designs cars to last as long as you want them to last."
I could spend an hour dispelling all that.
I guess that 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass I drove for many years and sold with 260,000 miles was a fluke ( saw it five years later still on the road !! ). And the several other American built cars and trucks I have owned and drove for sometime ( still do actually ) with over 200,000 miles on them were also flukes.
Alot of the problems car/trucks have have more to do with the owners than the vehicles.
I guess you never owned one of those early Rotary Mazda`s?
: )
A competent dealer would be able to fix this problem. This is not rocket science and has nothing to do where it is manufactured. Most likely cause is bad tires. Those square tires are known to cause vibration. Get some round ones.
"The fact that they had installed a jumper at the factory to do this told me that they knew from the beginning that it was going to carbon up and ping. They were just too lazy to reengineer the head design to fix the problem correctly."
That jumper plug was for checking and setting the ignition timing whenever maintainance was performed. If unplugging the jumper was the auto techs fix for the problem, they were idiots.
Duh! I can't give an opinion on every car ever made! I am speaking in general and from personal experience and the experience of firends and family. I had a friend in grad school with a rotary mazda and he never had any problems with it, but you are talking about an engine design there that was both unique and brought out, what, 30 years ago?!! Anyway, all the US cars in the 70s were junk due to slapped on pollution controls. The 80s cars were not much better and grossly underpowered and started falling apart as soon as you drove them off the dealer's lot. Things started to improve slowly in the 90s and US cars today are quite good compared to the last 30 years or more. Still not as good as those designed by Toyota or Honda, but not as bad as euro cars.
That only works with Harleys.
"I guess that 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass I drove for many years and sold with 260,000 miles was a fluke ( saw it five years later still on the road !! ). And the several other American built cars and trucks I have owned and drove for sometime ( still do actually ) with over 200,000 miles on them were also flukes. "
I would say your guess is right. They were flukes. I also believe you sunk a ton of money into them just to keep them running!
So the pinging really was "normal". Now I feel better.
Yeah. I only spent 17 years under the hoods of these cars/trucks and knew nothing about them.
You mean every car/truck Americans built in the 1970`s was junk? I don`t think so. Some were, some weren`t. Same in the 80`s and 90`s.
Why don`t you just go out and poop on the flag tomorrow. It might make you feel better. ( just a joke, don`t go all weird on me now ).
"So the pinging really was "normal". Now I feel better. "
Please point to when I said that.
Please don`t put "your words" in my mouth.
I really like your sense of humor. U da besst!
F***ed Over Reposessed Dodge
and one that's peculiar to the western states
Flipped Over Reservation Decoration
Maybe in the past Ford was a good marque, but I personally pay premium for German. More style, more power, less stress, and worth the price.
My assumption was that the jumper was to correct a known defect in the vehicle. I.E. that it normally began pinging with very little carbon buildup, so thus the jumper to patch the problem.
You informed me that I was wrong, that this jumper was for timing purposes.
Conclusion: The pinging actually is "normal" as the ford service people claimed, and you gave me the information to decide that fact.
Granted, I'm assuming much here with very little facts. But hey, this isn't a crevo thread. No reason to get wound up. We're just talking about ford defects here.
that post proves you do not know wahat you're talking about, sorry, try again.
the rotories (wankel) I never saw one w/ over 100k.
all US cars in the 70's sucked??? hmmmm. my '74 duster had +180k and my '76 nova had +180K
I've owned one Toyota, and that was more than enough. I don't think there's any such thing as an honest Toyota dealer.
I've got an Astro with about 150K on it, and a new Silverado pickup. Always been a Chevy guy.
I'd be looking a what excess power applications might have done to powertrain components given the higher torque and horsepower of newer engines.
Chevy SS Silverado puts out 345-hp with a H.O. Vortec 6000 V8. Yeah, I'd say you could bend things with this.
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