How Free is Britain?

Social Affairs Unit ^ | Feb 22 05 | Anthony Daniels

[oursouls]

** "Dude, I don't give a s**t about that list."

Please refrain from profanity of here, it upsets some folks and is against the wishes of the founder/owner.

Aside from that, you should care because it was compilled by a conservative American organisation and you as a conservative American should concern yourself with the fact that your country is not among the freeest in the world.

** "I don't need a license to:
own a tv; you do.
own a gun; you can't."

Granted, but there are things that we in the UK can do, which you can't. Cross the road and sip a beer in a public place being two of them. I'm sure there are others.

** I know that if the governemnt comes through the door of my home they will have obtained a warrant from a judge based on probable cause. You don't because your government isn't so restrained.

Not true. Same applies here, our authorities cannot enter a private premises without a warrent. Our authorities are also not allowed to tap our telephones without special permission from our Home Secretary (whichnis rare) and they are also not allowed to use phone tap evidence against us in court.

You do not have this privacy.

** I have 10 very specific individual rights enshrined in a document - you don't.

We have the magna carta, upon which your rights (and most of the rest of the civilised world's rights) are based.

** "That (document is/those rights are) continuously under attack by people who say they want us to live under a governmetn like yours...and they are very anti-individual rights. What does that tell you?"

That tells me that you haven't done your research properly.

** "That said, I'm still a citizen and you're still a subject. "

Wrong again. We Brits are citizens. It says so on my passport.

[tjwmason]

Recently, a minister friend of mine from England was visiting, and attended church with us. We heard a very good sermon, but afterward my friend informed me that, while he agreed with the sermon, he would have been arrested for giving that sermon in England. My guess is that England is NOT very free.

Well I'm not quite sure what your friend says in his sermons, but my father is a Priest in the Church of England and certainly has never felt any legal restrictions on preaching the Gospel.

Just to test the issue of England's freedom, publicly express the opinion that Islam is an evil religion of hate.

Nobody could do anything about it. There is no law whatsoever which places restrictions on what one might say about religions (except Christianity).

[Bombay Bloke]

U-huh. I see. So, you're one of THEM.

[tjwmason]

Interesting...so now the State has competion from private TV? Hadn't heard that.

First, to call the B.B.C. a state-broadcaster is misleading it is a public-broadcaster. Secondly, yes is has competition, and has had competition since the '60s (if I remember correctly, might be '50s). There are currently 5 analogue terrestrial channels 2 are B.B.C., then there is I.T.V.1 and Channel 5 which are entirely private and funded through advertising, and Channel 4 which is a private company (owned by the state, though not controlled) also funded by advertising. Additionally most households now have some extra system, the most popular being Sky (satelitte) which gives a few hundred channels.

[Bombay Bloke]

Here's something funny: You don't need a license to own a TV; you just need one to watch BBC. That's fine with me - there's a lot of great stuff on BBC.

Here's something even funnier: I, and most Brits, don't want to own a gun and couldn't give a sh*t about having the right to own one.

This one's hysterical: "I know that if the governemnt comes through the door of my home they will have obtained a warrant from a judge based on probable cause. You don't because your government isn't so restrained."

Actually, British police do need search warrants - you must have missed that during your research on the subject - and ever heard of the Patriot Act? They can enter your home, search it and never tell you about it.

"That said, I'm still a citizen and you're still a subject."

Wrong. Brits are citizens. This stuff about 'subjects' is archaic rubbish.

Any questions?

[Killing Time]

I'm a politically sovereign entity

Awwww, that's so sweet.

[pau1f0rd]

oh yes, I wasn't suggesting it would happen overnight, but I think the signs are all there that the license is on its way out. The BBC staff needn't lose their jobs in one go. It will just be privatised or funded by central govt like PBS in the US. Also, we could have an embargo on hiring new staff - using freelancers instead. Just about everyone working in the media world in London is self-employed already.

[A Jovial Cad]

If you've got something to say to ME, Graybeard, you ought to at least have the courage to come out and say it directly to moi--instead of hiding behind the shadowy skirts of some other poster's and mine's random back-and-forth skirmishing to obscure your challenge.

Feel free to speak straight to me, if you've got the spine for it, ANYTIME. Or at least have the decency to *ping me to those posts to others that concerns a matter we've discussed in your absence, even if you haven't the belly for challenging something I've said in such exchanges head-on.

[ijcr]

Indeed! You get the cigar.

[foreverfree]

bump

[Killing Time]

You tell 'em JC. You are such a cyberwarrior that folks are scared of you. You might shoot them with your big citizen cyber-gun. Heck, I'm scared posting this. Should I press the "post" butten? I might regret it. Here goes.

[oursouls]

Many thanks for your kind words Greybeard.

And please don't think that I am in any way anti-American.

I like Americans very much on the whole.

I just object to the mindless anti-anything-not-American stuff that is so often posted on this forum, particularly when it attacks my own country.

[1903A3]

Probably
But as long as you have the Second Amendment and the will to use it you will do fine

[A Jovial Cad]

Such piffle is literally beyond the scope of parody...

But go right ahead....

[Killing Time]

Is that the best you can come up with?

[DocJ69]

Hey Lighten up folks, I was in Britain a year ago and loved it, I thought a license for TV was funny, I have to have my car inspected here in the US. Do you guys? I could drive the Highways as fast as I tried to keep up with you guys, however it was frightening for me, to afraid to do that here. Yes I have a gun (not Licensed) but my Brit friend had them also.
I loved it over there, I got a ticket from the city of London for driving through, forgot I needed a permit. Still have the ticket waiting to be picked up here in KC so I can have an excuse to pay it. Love you folks, the Pubs were great, although when I rented my car forgot that you folks drive on the other side,it scared the pooh out of me.

[deaconjim]

You apparently missed the rest of my comment, where I said that I understand your point, and that there was a big difference between drinking in public and freedom of speech, religion, and the right to keep and bear arms.

Smoking in public places causes public health concerns, drinking in public places can result in safety problems. Public nudity is something that is and should be regulated by local standards of decency.

When government decides what is legal to say in the pulpit, or decides which opinions can be expressed, and takes away your freedom to arm yourself, then you have real problems, not just inconveniences.

[walden]

Yup.

Do you want to know the real problem with endless sex? Ultimately, it's just boring. I love to read, and always used to be particularly fond of romance novels. Well, for a period of 15+ years I got more interested in non-fiction on various subjects, but in the last year or so felt ready to just read good, human stories again for a while. So, I picked up some contemporary romance novels at the library, and I couldn't believe what I was reading. There was no character development whatsoever, no motivation, no reason for these people to care for one another at all (other than that they were rich and physically attractive, of course)-- but nevertheless, it was just sex, sex, sex. After 20 or 30 pages of that, I just put the book down because I simply didn't care what happened to the people-- they weren't people, they were card-board cut-outs of people. The average cartoon-strip character has a better developed human soul than these pathetic excuses for characters. I tried a couple more but they were the same-- boring.

As for the so-called contemporary literary fiction (the stuff we're SUPPOSED to like), well, the characters there do typically have developed human souls, but they're such ugly little souls. I find that I can't care about them either. Moreover, while trying to read one of these depressing tomes, I got the sneaking suspicion that the central characters would make absolutely no progress at all-- they wouldn't learning anything, they wouldn't experience any moral development at all. So, I cheated-- I skipped to the end, read the last parts, and sure enough, I was right. Hadn't learned a damn thing. So I gave up on that genre as well.

All that I find left of interest are some of the mystery/crime fiction, and the classics. I'm reading through Anthony Trollope's wonderful oeuvre now, interspersed with an occasional new work from a favorite mystery/crime writer. And, occasionally I'll re-read a favorite romance from 20 or more years ago.

Sometimes I think civilization is falling into a new Dark Ages, where life is nasty, brutish, and short. What is there of value in that to make life worth living?

[oursouls]

"I got a ticket from the city of London for driving through, forgot I needed a permit."

You don't need a permit to drive through London, but you are supposed to pay a fee (congestion charge it's called). This was introduced a couple of years ago by the rabidly left wing America-hating, Bush bashing, Jew baiting Ken Livingstone who is sadly and disgracefully still Mayor of London.

Conservatives hate and oppose this charge and conservative politicians in London have vowed to repeal it as soon as possible.

I'm glad you enjoyed your visit here.

You'all come back now y'hear!

[Bombay Bloke]

LOL. Yeah that whole left-right thing can be confusing. I hired a car in LA a year ago and couldn't seem to get the hang of the idea that the steering wheel was on the left-hand side of the car... It was okay on the freeway but as soon I got off it I had to keep muttering under my breath to remind myself: "Drive on the right, on the right, on the right..."